EPS Watch / Player Form Thread

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Scrumhead
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Re: EPS Watch / Player Form Thread

Postby Scrumhead » Wed Apr 07, 2021 4:32 pm

I thought he was born on the Isle of Man?

Also played for England at U16 and U18 so not exactly a poach.

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Puja
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Re: EPS Watch / Player Form Thread

Postby Puja » Wed Apr 07, 2021 6:58 pm

I think the summer tour (should such a thing even happen) selection should be significantly about tying down dual-qualified talent. We should get the likes of Rodd, Heyes, Randall, Quirke, Dingwall, Odogwu tied down before the Celts get any more ideas.

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Re: EPS Watch / Player Form Thread

Postby twitchy » Wed Apr 07, 2021 7:20 pm


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Re: EPS Watch / Player Form Thread

Postby Peej » Wed Apr 07, 2021 7:36 pm

Classic Eddie. Rather than engage with the media hype around a certain player, he goes out and threatens to call up someone nobody has ever heard of and has barely played Premiership rugby.

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Re: EPS Watch / Player Form Thread

Postby FKAS » Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:05 pm

Puja wrote:I think the summer tour (should such a thing even happen) selection should be significantly about tying down dual-qualified talent. We should get the likes of Rodd, Heyes, Randall, Quirke, Dingwall, Odogwu tied down before the Celts get any more ideas.

Puja


Out of interest who does Quirke also qualify for? Otherwise he's I agree, also gives the young lads chance to force their way into the squad.

Eddie is gonna Eddie, rather than just select Langdon the England age grade hooker who's playing well he's got to create a storm in a teacup over a different young hooker at Sale.

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Puja
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Re: EPS Watch / Player Form Thread

Postby Puja » Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:23 pm

FKAS wrote:
Puja wrote:I think the summer tour (should such a thing even happen) selection should be significantly about tying down dual-qualified talent. We should get the likes of Rodd, Heyes, Randall, Quirke, Dingwall, Odogwu tied down before the Celts get any more ideas.

Puja


Out of interest who does Quirke also qualify for? Otherwise he's I agree, also gives the young lads chance to force their way into the squad.

Eddie is gonna Eddie, rather than just select Langdon the England age grade hooker who's playing well he's got to create a storm in a teacup over a different young hooker at Sale.


Irish grandmother. He's the most important to tie down of that list IMO, with Heyes a close second.

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Oakboy
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Re: EPS Watch / Player Form Thread

Postby Oakboy » Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:11 am

Do the players who 'reinvent' their nationality make such decisions on a whim? Presumably, there is some sort of lead-up communication. If a player is told, for example, that he definitely has no chance of being capped by his own (or preferred) country, then who can blame him for having high ambition?

However, if it is a case of agreeing to the first/strongest approach there must be criticism of whichever country misses out if the player is worth having.

Of course, it is interesting to consider which country multi-qualified players choose if there is freedom to do so with no communication. I'd like to think it would be England with the best national league, the best potential etc. Looking at the four national coaching set-ups and making a free choice based on the relative environments, though . . . who knows?

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Re: EPS Watch / Player Form Thread

Postby fivepointer » Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:46 am

Get Ashman in before he opts to play for the country of his birth - Canada.

Typical Jones nonsense no doubt. To be fair to Ashman he has played for Scotland junior teams from u16 through to u20 so it seems clear where his heart lies.

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Re: EPS Watch / Player Form Thread

Postby Raggs » Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:07 am

fivepointer wrote:Get Ashman in before he opts to play for the country of his birth - Canada.

Typical Jones nonsense no doubt. To be fair to Ashman he has played for Scotland junior teams from u16 through to u20 so it seems clear where his heart lies.


Why clear? He'd have been bumping heads with some serious hooker talent in England, so may simply not have been picked for England, no choice to be made.

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Re: EPS Watch / Player Form Thread

Postby twitchy » Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:10 am

fivepointer wrote:Get Ashman in before he opts to play for the country of his birth - Canada.

Typical Jones nonsense no doubt. To be fair to Ashman he has played for Scotland junior teams from u16 through to u20 so it seems clear where his heart lies.


Loads of people seem to play for eng at age grade and then opt for other countries. It seems like it doesn't mean that much.

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Re: EPS Watch / Player Form Thread

Postby fivepointer » Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:14 am

Raggs wrote:
fivepointer wrote:Get Ashman in before he opts to play for the country of his birth - Canada.

Typical Jones nonsense no doubt. To be fair to Ashman he has played for Scotland junior teams from u16 through to u20 so it seems clear where his heart lies.


Why clear? He'd have been bumping heads with some serious hooker talent in England, so may simply not have been picked for England, no choice to be made.


Possibly, though anyone who plays over the period he has would seem to have some level of commitment to that country.

It could also be that he genuinely considers himself to be Scottish and wants to play for them.

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Re: EPS Watch / Player Form Thread

Postby Raggs » Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:25 am

fivepointer wrote:
Raggs wrote:
fivepointer wrote:Get Ashman in before he opts to play for the country of his birth - Canada.

Typical Jones nonsense no doubt. To be fair to Ashman he has played for Scotland junior teams from u16 through to u20 so it seems clear where his heart lies.


Why clear? He'd have been bumping heads with some serious hooker talent in England, so may simply not have been picked for England, no choice to be made.


Possibly, though anyone who plays over the period he has would seem to have some level of commitment to that country.

It could also be that he genuinely considers himself to be Scottish and wants to play for them.


Ross Moriarty played all his age grade with England I believe. I just don't think you can look at age grade and take it as a definitive statement. As a kid, just playing at that next level is big, I'd not worry about which shirt it was I was pulling on.

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Re: EPS Watch / Player Form Thread

Postby Banquo » Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:30 am

Raggs wrote:
fivepointer wrote:
Raggs wrote:
Why clear? He'd have been bumping heads with some serious hooker talent in England, so may simply not have been picked for England, no choice to be made.


Possibly, though anyone who plays over the period he has would seem to have some level of commitment to that country.

It could also be that he genuinely considers himself to be Scottish and wants to play for them.


Ross Moriarty played all his age grade with England I believe. I just don't think you can look at age grade and take it as a definitive statement. As a kid, just playing at that next level is big, I'd not worry about which shirt it was I was pulling on.

See Cameron Redpath.....the England pathway is excellent in terms of development exposure.

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Re: EPS Watch / Player Form Thread

Postby Epaminondas Pules » Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:38 pm

Remember at schools level (U18 down) you qualify based on where you go to school, but can opt to play for the country of your birth. The pathway then through to U20's doesn't tie anyone in, so you can play where you might get the best development where you live, or play for your country of birth / ancestry.

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Re: EPS Watch / Player Form Thread

Postby Epaminondas Pules » Thu Apr 08, 2021 2:19 pm

Raggs wrote:
fivepointer wrote:Get Ashman in before he opts to play for the country of his birth - Canada.

Typical Jones nonsense no doubt. To be fair to Ashman he has played for Scotland junior teams from u16 through to u20 so it seems clear where his heart lies.


Why clear? He'd have been bumping heads with some serious hooker talent in England, so may simply not have been picked for England, no choice to be made.


Capon, Head were his year group mainstays.

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Re: EPS Watch / Player Form Thread

Postby Raggs » Thu Apr 08, 2021 2:28 pm

Epaminondas Pules wrote:
Raggs wrote:
fivepointer wrote:Get Ashman in before he opts to play for the country of his birth - Canada.

Typical Jones nonsense no doubt. To be fair to Ashman he has played for Scotland junior teams from u16 through to u20 so it seems clear where his heart lies.


Why clear? He'd have been bumping heads with some serious hooker talent in England, so may simply not have been picked for England, no choice to be made.


Capon, Head were his year group mainstays.


Barbeary too no? Admittedly having skipped a year (but he did that quite a bit right?).

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Re: EPS Watch / Player Form Thread

Postby Banquo » Thu Apr 08, 2021 3:12 pm

Epaminondas Pules wrote:Remember at schools level (U18 down) you qualify based on where you go to school, but can opt to play for the country of your birth. The pathway then through to U20's doesn't tie anyone in, so you can play where you might get the best development where you live, or play for your country of birth / ancestry.

Exactly. Lots of players have chosen the England route, because certainly when Fletcher et al were about, they got great development experience.

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Re: EPS Watch / Player Form Thread

Postby Epaminondas Pules » Thu Apr 08, 2021 3:19 pm

Raggs wrote:
Epaminondas Pules wrote:
Raggs wrote:
Why clear? He'd have been bumping heads with some serious hooker talent in England, so may simply not have been picked for England, no choice to be made.


Capon, Head were his year group mainstays.


Barbeary too no? Admittedly having skipped a year (but he did that quite a bit right?).


Yeah. Not as present as Head and Capon, and if memory serves Dolly made an appearance too. Oh and Samson Ma'asi, who I completely forgot for some reason.

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Re: EPS Watch / Player Form Thread

Postby Epaminondas Pules » Thu Apr 08, 2021 3:30 pm

Banquo wrote:
Epaminondas Pules wrote:Remember at schools level (U18 down) you qualify based on where you go to school, but can opt to play for the country of your birth. The pathway then through to U20's doesn't tie anyone in, so you can play where you might get the best development where you live, or play for your country of birth / ancestry.

Exactly. Lots of players have chosen the England route, because certainly when Fletcher et al were about, they got great development experience.


Yep, absolutely, coupled with the usual 6th form intake mixture driving some of those school age representative decisions and in some cases a want to represent with your mates when it doesn't tie you in for life. There's quite a bit of movement to be had between U16 and full representative honours. For every Redpath there's a Lloyd.

One thing to note is that the exiles programmes in Scotland and especially Wales have greatly improved in talent spotting and nurturing.

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Re: EPS Watch / Player Form Thread

Postby Big D » Thu Apr 08, 2021 5:13 pm

Raggs wrote:
fivepointer wrote:Get Ashman in before he opts to play for the country of his birth - Canada.

Typical Jones nonsense no doubt. To be fair to Ashman he has played for Scotland junior teams from u16 through to u20 so it seems clear where his heart lies.


Why clear? He'd have been bumping heads with some serious hooker talent in England, so may simply not have been picked for England, no choice to be made.


He did accept and attend his call up to the 6N squad as a full member this year. That would indicate willing.

Can't blame him if he changes him mind right enough.

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Re: EPS Watch / Player Form Thread

Postby Cameo » Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:23 pm

First I've heard that Ashman is dual qualified (though not surprising). Would be a blow as he's been talked up in Scotland for quite a while now.

I don't like how it seems to fast track you into national squads if you mention you could play for someone else.

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Re: EPS Watch / Player Form Thread

Postby Dan. Dan. Dan. » Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:52 pm

I was constantly mentioning my Turkish grandad, never got me fast tracked...

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Re: EPS Watch / Player Form Thread

Postby TheNomad » Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:46 pm

Cameo wrote:
I don't like how it seems to fast track you into national squads if you mention you could play for someone else.


Completely agree - it’s not very fair or sportsmanlike is it?

Not sure there’s a way round it though

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Re: EPS Watch / Player Form Thread

Postby Scrumhead » Thu Apr 08, 2021 11:08 pm

That may be so, but we’re not generally in the business of capping a player so no-one else can.

Look at the recent examples of Redpath and Williams. If Eddie/England had wanted to be d*cks about it, they’d have been capped. Same for Odogwu.

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Re: EPS Watch / Player Form Thread

Postby Which Tyler » Fri Apr 09, 2021 12:46 am

And Polledri before that - actually, I can't remember the last player we capped who did feel like that


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