Under 20s

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FKAS
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Re: Under 20s

Postby FKAS » Mon Mar 21, 2022 8:40 am

fivepointer wrote:Disappointing finale to a pretty disappointing campaign.

Few players enhanced their reputations last night. I think there is some talent in this squad but they're only fleetingly shown it.


They've not looked a cohesive team at any point though the coaches chopped and changed every game. Didn't really offer the opportunity for the players to bed in and develop combinations with those around them.

Having said that I'm not sure it's a vintage year; Ilione, Arundell and Grayson all stood out and I suspect Richards and Baxter might do well at senior level as well.

Raggs
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Re: Under 20s

Postby Raggs » Mon Mar 21, 2022 10:17 am

I suspect the covid disruptions will have hit them hard, a coup[le of seasons without meaningful fixtures will have hurt these guys development.

fivepointer
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Re: Under 20s

Postby fivepointer » Wed Jun 01, 2022 11:01 am

https://www.englandrugby.com/news/artic ... e-in-italy

Every game of the U20 Summer Series will be streamed via the Six Nations Rugby YouTube channel.

POOLS
Pool A
France
Ireland
England
South Africa

Pool B
Scotland
Wales
Italy
Georgia

ENGLAND’S FIXTURES
England v South Africa - Friday 24 June, KO 4pm BST, Payanini Centre, Verona
England v France - Wednesday 29 June, KO 4pm BST, Payanini Centre, Verona
England v Ireland - Tuesday 5 July, KO 7pm BST, Payanini Centre, Verona

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Mellsblue
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Re: Under 20s

Postby Mellsblue » Wed Jun 01, 2022 1:19 pm

I’m not saying they’ve nicked my proposed format for an expanded 6N but they’ve definitely borrowed it. No, I’m not being big headed - we all know the senior administrators in rugby come to this site for their best ideas.

fivepointer
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Re: Under 20s

Postby fivepointer » Mon Jun 20, 2022 2:36 pm

SQUAD
Charlie Bracken, Saracens, Caps 0
Lucas Brooke, London Irish, Caps 4
Tom Carr-Smith, Bath Rugby, Caps 3
Lewis Chessum, Leicester Tigers, Caps 3
Chandler Cunningham-South, London Irish, Caps 3
Greg Fisilau, Wasps, Caps 2
Ollie Fletcher, Newcastle, Caps 1
Ethan Grayson, Northampton Saints, Caps 5
Alex Harmes, London Irish, Caps 0
Sam Harris, Bath Rugby, Caps 0
George Hendy, Northampton Saints, Caps 3
Emeka Ilione (c), Leicester Tigers, Caps 6
Louie Johnson, Newcastle Falcons, Caps 5
Toby Knight, Saracens, Caps 5
Tom Litchfield, Northampton Saints, Caps 5
Tom Lockett, Northampton Saints, Caps 4
Rekeiti Ma’asi-White, Wasps, Caps 1
Archie McArthur, Wasps, Caps 2
Tumy Onasanya, Sale Sharks, Caps 0
Conor Oresanya, Harlequins, Caps 0
Charlie Rice, Bristol Bears, Caps 3
Ewan Richards, Bath Rugby, Caps 7
Ethan Staddon, Bath Rugby, Caps 0
Finn Theobald-Thomas, Worcester, Caps 2
Andrew Turner, Bristol Bears, Caps 0
Fin Smith, Worcester Warriors, Caps 5
Iwan Stephens, Newcastle Falcons, Caps 1
John Stewart, Bath Rugby, Caps 5
Mikey Summerfield, London Irish, Caps 5
Jed Walsh, Leicester Tigers, Caps 0
Jevaughn Warren, Saracens, Caps 0
Tobi Wilson, Worcester Warriors, Caps 0

FIXTURES
England v South Africa - Friday 24 June, KO 4pm (BST)
England v France - Wednesday 29 June, KO 4pm (BST)
England v Ireland - Tuesday 5 July, KO 7pm (BST)

PLAY OFFS
Tuesday 12 July, KO TBC, Stadio Monigo, Treviso.

SDHoneymonster
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Re: Under 20s

Postby SDHoneymonster » Mon Jun 20, 2022 4:03 pm

England: lacking midfield beef.
Rekeiti Ma'asi-White: 6ft 1 and 100kg aged 19.

In other news, Jevaughn is a name I refuse to believe exists.

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Mellsblue
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Re: Under 20s

Postby Mellsblue » Mon Jun 20, 2022 4:06 pm

SDHoneymonster wrote:England: lacking midfield beef.
Rekeiti Ma'asi-White: 6ft 1 and 100kg aged 19.

In other news, Jevaughn is a name I refuse to believe exists.

He’s Michael Vaughan’s illegitimate French love child. His middle name is Mapelle.

SDHoneymonster
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Re: Under 20s

Postby SDHoneymonster » Mon Jun 20, 2022 4:42 pm

Mellsblue wrote:
SDHoneymonster wrote:England: lacking midfield beef.
Rekeiti Ma'asi-White: 6ft 1 and 100kg aged 19.

In other news, Jevaughn is a name I refuse to believe exists.

He’s Michael Vaughan’s illegitimate French love child. His middle name is Mapelle.


No discerning Frenchwoman would ever stoop to reproducing with Michael Vaughan. He can't even try and use the fact he was captain in 2005 to impress them as they'd just do a Gallic shrug before asking what on earth cricket was.

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Puja
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Re: Under 20s

Postby Puja » Mon Jun 20, 2022 4:47 pm

SDHoneymonster wrote:
Mellsblue wrote:
SDHoneymonster wrote:England: lacking midfield beef.
Rekeiti Ma'asi-White: 6ft 1 and 100kg aged 19.

In other news, Jevaughn is a name I refuse to believe exists.

He’s Michael Vaughan’s illegitimate French love child. His middle name is Mapelle.


No discerning Frenchwoman would ever stoop to reproducing with Michael Vaughan. He can't even try and use the fact he was captain in 2005 to impress them as they'd just do a Gallic shrug before asking what on earth cricket was.


C'est des grillons.

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Raggs
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Re: Under 20s

Postby Raggs » Mon Jun 20, 2022 6:41 pm

SDHoneymonster wrote:England: lacking midfield beef.
Rekeiti Ma'asi-White: 6ft 1 and 100kg aged 19.

In other news, Jevaughn is a name I refuse to believe exists.


Ma'asi-White really doesn't seem to use his size. At schoolboy he was a big bully int he videos I'd seen, but in the games I've seen now, he just seems very average, and virtually living off a past hype.

FKAS
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Re: Under 20s

Postby FKAS » Mon Jun 20, 2022 7:00 pm

Raggs wrote:
SDHoneymonster wrote:England: lacking midfield beef.
Rekeiti Ma'asi-White: 6ft 1 and 100kg aged 19.

In other news, Jevaughn is a name I refuse to believe exists.


Ma'asi-White really doesn't seem to use his size. At schoolboy he was a big bully int he videos I'd seen, but in the games I've seen now, he just seems very average, and virtually living off a past hype.


It's ok Tom Litchfield is in there and isn't small. I suspect he'll join his fellow Northampton pal Grayson in the midfield with Finn Smith at 10.

Smith, Grayson, Litchfield should be a pretty good combination.

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Mellsblue
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Re: Under 20s

Postby Mellsblue » Mon Jun 20, 2022 8:17 pm

Litchfield’s game absolutely isn’t about using his size. If he’s used as a bosh, straight running player he’s being wasted.

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Re: Under 20s

Postby FKAS » Mon Jun 20, 2022 9:18 pm

Mellsblue wrote:Litchfield’s game absolutely isn’t about using his size. If he’s used as a bosh, straight running player he’s being wasted.


If you're playing centre you've got to hit the occasional hard line but with the talent of a Smith/Grayson combo you'd hope he'd be running at soft shoulders and half gaps.

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Mellsblue
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Re: Under 20s

Postby Mellsblue » Mon Jun 20, 2022 9:40 pm

FKAS wrote:
Mellsblue wrote:Litchfield’s game absolutely isn’t about using his size. If he’s used as a bosh, straight running player he’s being wasted.


If you're playing centre you've got to hit the occasional hard line but with the talent of a Smith/Grayson combo you'd hope he'd be running at soft shoulders and half gaps.

I’m aware of all of that but having watched him numerous times live and on TV (Grayson too, for that matter) he’s no replacement for a big, powerful centre and would be wasted in that role. It would completely change how you’d set up. I just don’t see the logic of ‘our big bosh centre isn’t punching his weight but it’s ok as we’ve got Litchfield as he’s pretty big’. It’s a bit like saying Tuilagi’s injured but it’s ok because Slade’s pretty big. Totally different players.

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Re: Under 20s

Postby FKAS » Mon Jun 20, 2022 10:01 pm

Mellsblue wrote:
FKAS wrote:
Mellsblue wrote:Litchfield’s game absolutely isn’t about using his size. If he’s used as a bosh, straight running player he’s being wasted.


If you're playing centre you've got to hit the occasional hard line but with the talent of a Smith/Grayson combo you'd hope he'd be running at soft shoulders and half gaps.

I’m aware of all of that but having watched him numerous times live and on TV (Grayson too, for that matter) he’s no replacement for a big, powerful centre and would be wasted in that role. It would completely change how you’d set up. I just don’t see the logic of ‘our big bosh centre isn’t punching his weight but it’s ok as we’ve got Litchfield as he’s pretty big’. It’s a bit like saying Tuilagi’s injured but it’s ok because Slade’s pretty big. Totally different players.


Litchfield can do the job in defence physically in attack we can adjust. England did it rather well in that stage where we replaced Manu with Joseph. As long as you've got creative players creating space and exploiting it when they do you just need a quality running threat.

Epaminondas Pules
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Re: Under 20s

Postby Epaminondas Pules » Mon Jun 20, 2022 10:32 pm

In Tumy and Jevaughan we’ve a serious pair of looseheads!! Delighted for Jevaughan after an almost entire season lost to injury.

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Mellsblue
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Re: Under 20s

Postby Mellsblue » Tue Jun 21, 2022 6:50 am

FKAS wrote:
Mellsblue wrote:
FKAS wrote:
If you're playing centre you've got to hit the occasional hard line but with the talent of a Smith/Grayson combo you'd hope he'd be running at soft shoulders and half gaps.

I’m aware of all of that but having watched him numerous times live and on TV (Grayson too, for that matter) he’s no replacement for a big, powerful centre and would be wasted in that role. It would completely change how you’d set up. I just don’t see the logic of ‘our big bosh centre isn’t punching his weight but it’s ok as we’ve got Litchfield as he’s pretty big’. It’s a bit like saying Tuilagi’s injured but it’s ok because Slade’s pretty big. Totally different players.


Litchfield can do the job in defence physically in attack we can adjust. England did it rather well in that stage where we replaced Manu with Joseph. As long as you've got creative players creating space and exploiting it when they do you just need a quality running threat.

Again, I’m aware of all that. I just take issue with you saying that ‘it’s ok Litchfield is in there and isn’t small’ as it’s apples and oranges.

Slater582
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Re: Under 20s

Postby Slater582 » Tue Jun 21, 2022 3:09 pm

On the subject of big centre, thought Olly Hartley might have been selected after missing the Six Nations, unless he's still injured. No Fin Baxter, Sam Edwards, Jamie Benson or Deago Bailey who had all played earlier in the year either.

There's another half dozen lads in Hoyt, Alfie Bell, Cripps, Nye Thomas, Cusick & Cassius Cleaves who miss out this time but all are eligible for the Junior World Cup next year.

FKAS
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Re: Under 20s

Postby FKAS » Thu Jun 23, 2022 1:09 pm

Team for South Africa game:

15. George Hendy, Northampton Saints
14. Tom Litchfield, Northampton Saints
13. Ethan Grayson, Northampton Saints
12. Rekeiti Ma’asi-White, Wasps
11. Iwan Stephens, Newcastle Falcons
10. Fin Smith, Worcester Warriors
9. Tom Carr-Smith, Bath Rugby
1. Tumy Onasanya, Sale Sharks
2. John Stewart, Bath Rugby
3. Jevaughn Warren, Saracens
4. Ewan Richards, Bath Rugby
5. Lewis Chessum, Leicester Tigers
6. Chandler Cunningham-South, London Irish
7. Emeka Ilione, Leicester Tigers (c)
8. Greg Fisilau, Wasps

Replacements

16. Finn Theobald-Thomas, Worcester
17. Andrew Turner, Bristol Bears
18. Mikey Summerfield, London Irish
19. Tom Lockett, Northampton Saints
20. Lucas Brooke, London Irish
21. Ethan Staddon, Bath Rugby
22. Toby Knight, Saracens
23. Charlie Bracken, Saracens
24. Jed Walsh, Leicester Tigers
25. Conor Oresanya, Harlequins
26. Tobi Wilson, Worcester Warriors

Epaminondas Pules
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Re: Under 20s

Postby Epaminondas Pules » Thu Jun 23, 2022 2:38 pm

Didn’t realise Jevaughan had swapped sides (or able to play both). That’s a hefty front row with a fair amount of dynamism too!!

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Mellsblue
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Re: Under 20s

Postby Mellsblue » Thu Jun 23, 2022 2:52 pm

Why do they keep selecting Litchfield on the wing?!?!

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Puja
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Re: Under 20s

Postby Puja » Thu Jun 23, 2022 3:14 pm

Mellsblue wrote:Why do they keep selecting Litchfield on the wing?!?!


Everyone seems shifted out one to try and accomodate Ma'asi-White.

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fivepointer
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Re: Under 20s

Postby fivepointer » Thu Jun 23, 2022 3:43 pm

I would have thought Grayson at 12 and Litchfield at 13 with a winger on the wing would have been the obvious option.

2 new props given a run out. Guys who werent in the original squad and didnt feature in the 6N's. We seem to have got through an awful lot of players in 20's this year.

fivepointer
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Re: Under 20s

Postby fivepointer » Fri Jun 24, 2022 7:19 pm

We lost 22-30. In truth we were 2nd best across the park.

Game available here -

FKAS
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Re: Under 20s

Postby FKAS » Fri Jun 24, 2022 8:39 pm

If the Baby Boks had someone that could kick the scoreline would have looked a closer reflection of the game.

England need to shift Ilione to 8 and put on another openside. The English defence lacked organisation and was over reliant on Ilione turnovers to stem the flow of the Bok attack (the Boks 9 looked a talent). English attack looked alright but the handling was awful. We twice threw forward passes unnecessarily when accurate passes would have resulted in tries.


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