Team for Georgia

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Sandydragon
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Re: Team for Georgia

Postby Sandydragon » Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:13 pm

Son of Mathonwy wrote:Nice get a win and avoid the possibility of Pivac suffering some kind of record-breaking run of losses during the 6N.

Line out was okay, not great. The scrum was dominant, which was great to see. In the breakdown we did okay but not well enough to set our backs free. We saw very little fireworks from the backs. Most players looked competent and not much more. LRZ did have one nice big run and was perhaps the best of the backs.

18-0. Nice to nil them, but for context: Scotland got 48-7 and England 40-0 against them. So not great really.

I'm not sure what Pivac's plan is supposed to look like in ideal conditions (unless it's what the Scarlets looked like a few years back), but if we can't get it together against Georgia, if we can't run in a few more tries, what chance against a good team? No chance against England.

What does this mean for the England game? Same front row as today, clearly. Ball and AWJ. Have we lost Tips? Jesus, hope we don't have to play Cubby. None of our scrum halves have claimed the shirt (pick one at random). Sheedy looked competent but not obviously better than Biggar (I'd still go for Patchell if fit). Centres, no one is nailed on. Tompkins and JD2? But I've no strong opinion. Adams and LRZ. Liam at full back (although Sheedy might not be accurate enough, so we might need 1/2p somewhere)

But in context the English and Scottish had more experienced players out. That team was experimental.

For England, I’d go for:

Wyn Jones
Dee
Lee
Ball
AWJ
Wainwright
Navidi (assuming Tips isn’t fit but please God not James Davies)
Faletau
Lloyd Williams
Sheedy
LRZ
Jonny Williams
Tompkins
Adams
Liam Williams

The chances of winning aren’t high so I’d like to go for a back line which can at least cause the English some problems and perhaps get some experience for the future.

normanski
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Re: Team for Georgia

Postby normanski » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:56 pm

Sandy - I think most commentators on here would be happy with that starting XV but Pivac will probably go for Biggar, with Sheedy on the bench.

Also he likes Foxy and this is a game that will be seen as one for him to regain his form, so Tompkins will probably miss out or be switched to 12.

I wonder too if North will feature and wouldn’t be surprised if he makes the squad.

Wouldn’t it be great if we could rediscover our speed and dominance at the breakdown. Navidi and Faletau, although lacking game time, could provide the edge we’ve been lacking in recent matches.

Looking forward to Eddie lobbing his verbal grenades this week.

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Sandydragon
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Re: Team for Georgia

Postby Sandydragon » Mon Nov 23, 2020 8:57 am

normanski wrote:Sandy - I think most commentators on here would be happy with that starting XV but Pivac will probably go for Biggar, with Sheedy on the bench.

Also he likes Foxy and this is a game that will be seen as one for him to regain his form, so Tompkins will probably miss out or be switched to 12.

I wonder too if North will feature and wouldn’t be surprised if he makes the squad.

Wouldn’t it be great if we could rediscover our speed and dominance at the breakdown. Navidi and Faletau, although lacking game time, could provide the edge we’ve been lacking in recent matches.

Looking forward to Eddie lobbing his verbal grenades this week.


Quite a few of the Fail commentators are picking the same back line, so it will be interesting if Privac does go for experience. I’d personally have George North on the bench.

If Biggar is picked then it’s all about damage limitation and unless we do manage to win, never say never, then I think Privac will regret not being a bit bolder and seeing how new faces get on against top drawer opposition.

I’d also much rather England have a few new faces to try and work out rather than us worry about what they will bring.

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Numbers
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Re: Team for Georgia

Postby Numbers » Mon Nov 23, 2020 12:57 pm

Sandydragon wrote:
Son of Mathonwy wrote:Nice get a win and avoid the possibility of Pivac suffering some kind of record-breaking run of losses during the 6N.

Line out was okay, not great. The scrum was dominant, which was great to see. In the breakdown we did okay but not well enough to set our backs free. We saw very little fireworks from the backs. Most players looked competent and not much more. LRZ did have one nice big run and was perhaps the best of the backs.

18-0. Nice to nil them, but for context: Scotland got 48-7 and England 40-0 against them. So not great really.

I'm not sure what Pivac's plan is supposed to look like in ideal conditions (unless it's what the Scarlets looked like a few years back), but if we can't get it together against Georgia, if we can't run in a few more tries, what chance against a good team? No chance against England.

What does this mean for the England game? Same front row as today, clearly. Ball and AWJ. Have we lost Tips? Jesus, hope we don't have to play Cubby. None of our scrum halves have claimed the shirt (pick one at random). Sheedy looked competent but not obviously better than Biggar (I'd still go for Patchell if fit). Centres, no one is nailed on. Tompkins and JD2? But I've no strong opinion. Adams and LRZ. Liam at full back (although Sheedy might not be accurate enough, so we might need 1/2p somewhere)

But in context the English and Scottish had more experienced players out. That team was experimental.

For England, I’d go for:

Wyn Jones
Dee
Lee
Ball
AWJ
Wainwright
Navidi (assuming Tips isn’t fit but please God not James Davies)
Faletau
Lloyd Williams
Sheedy
LRZ
Jonny Williams
Tompkins
Adams
Liam Williams

The chances of winning aren’t high so I’d like to go for a back line which can at least cause the English some problems and perhaps get some experience for the future.


I think the pack will be the players you have picked tho I think Faletau may move to blindside with Wainwright at 8, he seems to be more dynamic over the first few yards these days. I think Halfpenny will play 15 with Liam and Adams on the wings, I'd have Williams and Davies in the centres, I'm not sure that Pivac will risk Sheedy but I'd like to see him given a go, he did nothing wrong on Saturday and fielded a lot of the high balls well, Scrum half is a weird one, if the weather is going to be bad again we need the best kicking scrum half which is Lloyd Williams.

I also thought the replacement front row did well on the weekend did quite well when they came on so I'd have: Parry, Smith, Brown, Rowlands, Lewis-Hughes/Botham, Webb, Biggar, LRZ on the bench.

They'll be a lot of kicking again I would imagine, so we need the right players to execute that.

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Puja
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Re: Team for Georgia

Postby Puja » Mon Nov 23, 2020 5:38 pm

Sandydragon wrote:I’d also much rather England have a few new faces to try and work out rather than us worry about what they will bring.


New faces?! Wasn't Sheedy/Williams/Tompkins England's finishing midfield against the Barbarians in 2019?

Also, we will be bringing kicking. Lots and lots and lots and lots and lots of kicking. Except when there's a turnover and Itoje's first receiver rather than Farrell - then we might pass it down the line and score.

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normanski
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Re: Team for Georgia

Postby normanski » Mon Nov 23, 2020 8:20 pm

Puja wrote:
Sandydragon wrote:I’d also much rather England have a few new faces to try and work out rather than us worry about what they will bring.


New faces?! Wasn't Sheedy/Williams/Tompkins England's finishing midfield against the Barbarians in 2019?

Also, we will be bringing kicking. Lots and lots and lots and lots and lots of kicking. Except when there's a turnover and Itoje's first receiver rather than Farrell - then we might pass it down the line and score.

Puja

Obviously you and England are very confident that we're going to have a hammering after our stuttering performances so far this year. There might be (I stress the might..) an upset as can often happen with England when they are over confident. Cardiff 2013, RWC 2015, RWC 2019. Last year in the RWC you put the Blacks away in grand style yet copped a beating against SA when all you had to do was turn up to get the win!!

Don't underestimate the will and resolve we sometimes find when we're playing England in Wales.

It's going to be an intriguing game.

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Puja
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Re: Team for Georgia

Postby Puja » Mon Nov 23, 2020 8:36 pm

normanski wrote:
Puja wrote:
Sandydragon wrote:I’d also much rather England have a few new faces to try and work out rather than us worry about what they will bring.


New faces?! Wasn't Sheedy/Williams/Tompkins England's finishing midfield against the Barbarians in 2019?

Also, we will be bringing kicking. Lots and lots and lots and lots and lots of kicking. Except when there's a turnover and Itoje's first receiver rather than Farrell - then we might pass it down the line and score.

Puja

Obviously you and England are very confident that we're going to have a hammering after our stuttering performances so far this year. There might be (I stress the might..) an upset as can often happen with England when they are over confident. Cardiff 2013, RWC 2015, RWC 2019. Last year in the RWC you put the Blacks away in grand style yet copped a beating against SA when all you had to do was turn up to get the win!!

Don't underestimate the will and resolve we sometimes find when we're playing England in Wales.

It's going to be an intriguing game.


I've watched too many games of England against Wales to get cocky. I'm still scarred from the 1999 game where we utterly dominated the game, only for stupid penalties and Neil Jenkins to keep you in touch, and Gibbs to snatch it at the end.

As you say, your lot always bring out something special to face England (the reason I was cheering for South Africa in the semi last year cause I didn't trust your lot not to roll us in the final) and you will be given a helping hand by our stubborn refusal to use any of our backs for anything but a kick chase.

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normanski
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Re: Team for Georgia

Postby normanski » Tue Nov 24, 2020 12:29 pm

Puja wrote:
normanski wrote:
Puja wrote:
New faces?! Wasn't Sheedy/Williams/Tompkins England's finishing midfield against the Barbarians in 2019?

Also, we will be bringing kicking. Lots and lots and lots and lots and lots of kicking. Except when there's a turnover and Itoje's first receiver rather than Farrell - then we might pass it down the line and score.

Puja

Obviously you and England are very confident that we're going to have a hammering after our stuttering performances so far this year. There might be (I stress the might..) an upset as can often happen with England when they are over confident. Cardiff 2013, RWC 2015, RWC 2019. Last year in the RWC you put the Blacks away in grand style yet copped a beating against SA when all you had to do was turn up to get the win!!

Don't underestimate the will and resolve we sometimes find when we're playing England in Wales.

It's going to be an intriguing game.


I've watched too many games of England against Wales to get cocky. I'm still scarred from the 1999 game where we utterly dominated the game, only for stupid penalties and Neil Jenkins to keep you in touch, and Gibbs to snatch it at the end.

As you say, your lot always bring out something special to face England (the reason I was cheering for South Africa in the semi last year cause I didn't trust your lot not to roll us in the final) and you will be given a helping hand by our stubborn refusal to use any of our backs for anything but a kick chase.

Puja

I think it’s this friendly (?) rivalry which makes these must watch affairs. I’m fairly certain that England will win but I just hope we can put in a performance that shows we’re getting back on track. Your pack scares me like hell.

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Son of Mathonwy
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Re: Team for Georgia

Postby Son of Mathonwy » Tue Nov 24, 2020 3:24 pm

My optimism levels are reading as unusually low for a Wales-England game.

Hope our boys prove me wrong and pull out one of those unexpected ones, like 2007.

But that's the thing about unexpected ones - I'm not expecting it.

normanski
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Re: Team for Georgia

Postby normanski » Tue Nov 24, 2020 7:57 pm

Son of Mathonwy wrote:My optimism levels are reading as unusually low for a Wales-England game.

Hope our boys prove me wrong and pull out one of those unexpected ones, like 2007.

But that's the thing about unexpected ones - I'm not expecting it.

I expect we’re all in that frame of mind.

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Sandydragon
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Re: Team for Georgia

Postby Sandydragon » Tue Nov 24, 2020 8:41 pm

normanski wrote:
Son of Mathonwy wrote:My optimism levels are reading as unusually low for a Wales-England game.

Hope our boys prove me wrong and pull out one of those unexpected ones, like 2007.

But that's the thing about unexpected ones - I'm not expecting it.

I expect we’re all in that frame of mind.

Yeah. 2007 and maybe 2008 are good comparisons. Even in 1999 we have the French game to provide a glimmer of hope. Whilst it was close last time out, England appear to have moved forward and we have gone in the other direction.

Digby
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Re: Team for Georgia

Postby Digby » Wed Nov 25, 2020 11:15 pm

Sandydragon wrote:
For England, I’d go for:

Wyn Jones
Dee
Lee
Ball
AWJ
Wainwright
Navidi (assuming Tips isn’t fit but please God not James Davies)
Faletau
Lloyd Williams
Sheedy
LRZ
Jonny Williams
Tompkins
Adams
Liam Williams

The chances of winning aren’t high so I’d like to go for a back line which can at least cause the English some problems and perhaps get some experience for the future.


I'd pick Navidi whatever, still more if you're going to carry on going high in the tackle. And then assuming going high is now your thing and you're going where Ireland were hunting choke turnovers, which is why I'd pick Navidi for that strength holding the carrier up, you're quite right to pick props that can scrum. It was a little weird you were hunting choke tackles with props that didn't scrum well.

The choke is not a bad idea against England providing people don't get carried away against Billy. Some teams will offload a fair amount but while we'll use the pullback pass that's not the same as the offload, and without offloading out the choke it could in all senses hold us up more than a good few sides.

And England are happy to give away penalties even when things are working out for them, it can be worse if we get upset.

I don't look at your centre pairing and think solidity and good decision making in defence, but with no power option off the wing and no Manu they're better set to join in the going high, Vs another England side that centre pairing could be as Catt and Tait before Thomas and Shanklin, good players in the wrong game

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Sandydragon
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Re: Team for Georgia

Postby Sandydragon » Thu Nov 26, 2020 8:50 am

Digby,

If we can put some pressure on up front and get a few points in the board, it will be interesting to see how England manage. I’m not sure that Jones has fully dealt with the problem they have mentally when under pressure.

But I suspect that we won’t do that at all and it will be fairly comfortable for England. Tompkins and Williams isn’t a world class combination but both a decent players who deserve the opportunity to develop. JD2 can’t play forever so I’d rather get his replacement some experience in this game than experiment in the six nations too much.


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