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Only 2 10s

Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:25 pm
by Sandydragon
According to the Fail, Gatland May only be taking two Fly Halves, surely Biggar and Anscombe, to the RWC.

Seems like a risky move, but Gatland has form in this area (Lions 2013).

Re: Only 2 10s

Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 5:05 pm
by Numbers
Sandydragon wrote:According to the Fail, Gatland May only be taking two Fly Halves, surely Biggar and Anscombe, to the RWC.

Seems like a risky move, but Gatland has form in this area (Lions 2013).


To be fair Patchell's form has been flaky and it's a bit too soon for Jarrod Evans imo, Biggar doesn't get injured much so I wouldn't be too bothered with just the two.

Re: Only 2 10s

Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:13 am
by cashead
What’s the flight time between Wales and Japan?

Re: Only 2 10s

Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 7:35 am
by Sandydragon
Replacements are permanent and cannot play within 48 hours of the decision being made by the team management and World Rugby being notified.

So time for a replacement to be notified and get to Japan. But then of course they need to acclimatise, shake off jet lag and get into the team mentality etc.

Worst case scenario is that one of the fly halves picks up a slight injury and where they might normally be rested for a game, at best they will be on the bench.

I expect for the Uruguay game we won’t bother with that and replace who ever starts at 10 with a random player once we pull away. For all the other games it will be a huge risk not to have a good fly half option on the bench.

Re: Only 2 10s

Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 10:49 am
by Numbers
Sandydragon wrote:Replacements are permanent and cannot play within 48 hours of the decision being made by the team management and World Rugby being notified.

So time for a replacement to be notified and get to Japan. But then of course they need to acclimatise, shake off jet lag and get into the team mentality etc.

Worst case scenario is that one of the fly halves picks up a slight injury and where they might normally be rested for a game, at best they will be on the bench.

I expect for the Uruguay game we won’t bother with that and replace who ever starts at 10 with a random player once we pull away. For all the other games it will be a huge risk not to have a good fly half option on the bench.


Would the players on standby attempt to follow the sleeping patterns of the ones in Japan to avoid jetlag? It would seem sensible but I genuinely have no idea.

Are the players on standby allowed to be in Japan?

Re: Only 2 10s

Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 10:52 am
by cashead
Numbers wrote:
Sandydragon wrote:Replacements are permanent and cannot play within 48 hours of the decision being made by the team management and World Rugby being notified.

So time for a replacement to be notified and get to Japan. But then of course they need to acclimatise, shake off jet lag and get into the team mentality etc.

Worst case scenario is that one of the fly halves picks up a slight injury and where they might normally be rested for a game, at best they will be on the bench.

I expect for the Uruguay game we won’t bother with that and replace who ever starts at 10 with a random player once we pull away. For all the other games it will be a huge risk not to have a good fly half option on the bench.


Would the players on standby attempt to follow the sleeping patterns of the ones in Japan to avoid jetlag? It would seem sensible but I genuinely have no idea.

Are the players on standby allowed to be in Japan?

Wasn't Simon Shaw was knocking about in Australia as injury cover back in 2003?

Re: Only 2 10s

Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 11:17 am
by Digby
cashead wrote:
Numbers wrote:
Sandydragon wrote:Replacements are permanent and cannot play within 48 hours of the decision being made by the team management and World Rugby being notified.

So time for a replacement to be notified and get to Japan. But then of course they need to acclimatise, shake off jet lag and get into the team mentality etc.

Worst case scenario is that one of the fly halves picks up a slight injury and where they might normally be rested for a game, at best they will be on the bench.

I expect for the Uruguay game we won’t bother with that and replace who ever starts at 10 with a random player once we pull away. For all the other games it will be a huge risk not to have a good fly half option on the bench.


Would the players on standby attempt to follow the sleeping patterns of the ones in Japan to avoid jetlag? It would seem sensible but I genuinely have no idea.

Are the players on standby allowed to be in Japan?

Wasn't Simon Shaw was knocking about in Australia as injury cover back in 2003?


No, he was flown out once Grewcock picked up an injury I think.

Better was the treatment of Healey who was flown out to cover possible injuries to Bracken and Dawson and never even joined up with the squad but was sequestered in a nearby hotel and then flown back out again after both 9s confirmed their availability to continue. Both Bracken and Dawson have suggested they reported injured on purpose partly to simply force Austin into long distance flight there and back, though Bracken certainly did have a dodgy back, and they might have done it to escape the training Woodward was subjecting them to.

But you could have staged people on holiday in NZ if the player(s) were up for it, not all would, to make any callup easier. Where you'd stage people for Japan I don't know, South Korea is perhaps the easiest, but it's not everyone's ideal location.

Re: Only 2 10s

Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 11:52 am
by Sandydragon
I suggest it might not be a huge surprise if Rhys Patchell seemly gets the urge to explore Hong Kong.

Re: Only 2 10s

Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 11:52 am
by Puja
Numbers wrote:
Sandydragon wrote:Replacements are permanent and cannot play within 48 hours of the decision being made by the team management and World Rugby being notified.

So time for a replacement to be notified and get to Japan. But then of course they need to acclimatise, shake off jet lag and get into the team mentality etc.

Worst case scenario is that one of the fly halves picks up a slight injury and where they might normally be rested for a game, at best they will be on the bench.

I expect for the Uruguay game we won’t bother with that and replace who ever starts at 10 with a random player once we pull away. For all the other games it will be a huge risk not to have a good fly half option on the bench.


Would the players on standby attempt to follow the sleeping patterns of the ones in Japan to avoid jetlag? It would seem sensible but I genuinely have no idea.

Are the players on standby allowed to be in Japan?


I'm sure there are rules about not being allowed to have standbys in the country (cause otherwise the rich nations would blatantly fly out their spares as a matter of course), but I've got no idea how wideranging they are, or what's to stop Wales sending a spare fly-half on holiday to Singapore.

Puja

Re: Only 2 10s

Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 11:54 am
by Sandydragon
I also recall that Dai Young got a call up for Wales who were touring Australia where he just happened to be holidaying. I suppose some of the opposition might complain but you can’t stop players from taking holidays.


Or from packing their boots.

Re: Only 2 10s

Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 12:55 pm
by cashead
Numbers wrote:Are the players on standby allowed to be in Japan?

Better yet, who are World Rugby to tell players where they can or can not holiday, if they have time off?

Let's say Anscombe or whomever picks up an injury, and I dunno, James Hook happens to be seeing the temples in Kyoto and Nara. On what grounds can they say "uh, can't do that."

Re: Only 2 10s

Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 1:07 pm
by Mikey Brown
Who shifts to 10 in the scenario both match-day 10s go down? Parkes? Tipuric? Ken Owens?

Re: Only 2 10s

Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 1:30 pm
by Puja
cashead wrote:
Numbers wrote:Are the players on standby allowed to be in Japan?

Better yet, who are World Rugby to tell players where they can or can not holiday, if they have time off?

Let's say Anscombe or whomever picks up an injury, and I dunno, James Hook happens to be seeing the temples in Kyoto and Nara. On what grounds can they say "uh, can't do that."


I believe you need to nominate a standby list, from which replacements must be drawn and those nominated players are not allowed to be in the host country or else they're not eligible to be used as injury subs. However, I don't know how far that stretches in terms of neighbouring countries. Plus, I'm not 100% certain about this, so there is the ever-present possibility that I'm talking nonsense.

Puja

Re: Only 2 10s

Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 2:11 pm
by Sandydragon
Puja wrote:
cashead wrote:
Numbers wrote:Are the players on standby allowed to be in Japan?

Better yet, who are World Rugby to tell players where they can or can not holiday, if they have time off?

Let's say Anscombe or whomever picks up an injury, and I dunno, James Hook happens to be seeing the temples in Kyoto and Nara. On what grounds can they say "uh, can't do that."


I believe you need to nominate a standby list, from which replacements must be drawn and those nominated players are not allowed to be in the host country or else they're not eligible to be used as injury subs. However, I don't know how far that stretches in terms of neighbouring countries. Plus, I'm not 100% certain about this, so there is the ever-present possibility that I'm talking nonsense.

Puja


Is that still the case? I thought the 48 hour rule was meant to prevent abuse, after all people can generally take a holiday where they like.

Re: Only 2 10s

Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 2:20 pm
by Puja
Sandydragon wrote:
Puja wrote:
cashead wrote:Better yet, who are World Rugby to tell players where they can or can not holiday, if they have time off?

Let's say Anscombe or whomever picks up an injury, and I dunno, James Hook happens to be seeing the temples in Kyoto and Nara. On what grounds can they say "uh, can't do that."


I believe you need to nominate a standby list, from which replacements must be drawn and those nominated players are not allowed to be in the host country or else they're not eligible to be used as injury subs. However, I don't know how far that stretches in terms of neighbouring countries. Plus, I'm not 100% certain about this, so there is the ever-present possibility that I'm talking nonsense.

Puja


Is that still the case? I thought the 48 hour rule was meant to prevent abuse, after all people can generally take a holiday where they like.


I always reserve the right to be wrong. However, I'm not sure how there can't be a rule - otherwise surely the RFU would be paying for all their standby to go "on holiday". Or the standby list all go on holiday themselves to try and get a leg up over the others on the list.

It could just be that there's a gentleman's agreement not to take the piss, but surely that would've been blown through by someone like Eddie by now.

Puja

Re: Only 2 10s

Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 2:23 pm
by Digby
I'm really not sure you'd want to be picking people placed in confinement camps somewhere near a RWC squad. They could well end up utterly miserable, so much so you're better off flying in people who've been on the lash like Catt or Donald

Re: Only 2 10s

Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:13 pm
by Numbers
Mikey Brown wrote:Who shifts to 10 in the scenario both match-day 10s go down? Parkes? Tipuric? Ken Owens?


Parkes most likely, they were also a few mutterings about Halfpenny, tho Ken can do anything so I wouldn't rule him out ;)