1872 Cup Champions

Moderator: OptimisticJock

septic 9
Posts: 262
Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2019 9:19 am

Re: 1872 Cup Champions

Postby septic 9 » Thu Sep 10, 2020 9:13 am

Cameo wrote:
switchskier wrote:Well it was a disappointing result and performance to end an encouraging season. It does feel like the squad is deep and ready to win, but that something is holding it back just a touch.

Haven't seen that much of them recently so can't say I've noticed Kinghorn repeatedly stepping back inside. But if true it's a pretty damning indictment of the backs coaching team given how effective he was hitting weak outside shoulders 18 months ago.


It was very noticeable in the Ulster game. It's the kind of thing that leads each time to a gain of a few metres as he is big and has decent feet/acceleration but rarely leads to a proper break. Hard to say how much it was him but I suspect that it is as much the fact that the timing always seems off on every Edinburgh backs move. I honestly don't think they work on their passing enough.


wide players come back inside if they don't think they can get round on the outside. All good players do this, looking for support for ball retention, and if close to touch to keep the ball in play. There is nothing more frustrating than a wing being isolated and turned over or shoved into touch.

Now if it happens too much we need to ask why, and the biggest reasons are a 10 standing too deep and a non distributing 12. Plus Cockerill's game plans

Cameo
Posts: 1559
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2016 9:14 pm

Re: 1872 Cup Champions

Postby Cameo » Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:41 pm

Not worth a new thread but Leinster won the title on Saturday. They are clearly the model to aspire to.

More generally, the way the restart was set up in the pro14 can't be said to have been fair to everyone but I think it has actually worked out ok. All the main contenders got a chance and we got a winner relatively quickly.

Based on the team lists posted on the EMB for the prem and the games I have seen, it is a mess down there. Each game comes down largely to which team has selected their B team. Will be good for a few players' development but doesn't make for a satisfying season and increases the impact on next season.

No news yet that I have seen on the proX start for next season though.

Big D
Posts: 4048
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2016 7:49 pm

Re: 1872 Cup Champions

Postby Big D » Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:00 am

Cameo wrote:Not worth a new thread but Leinster won the title on Saturday. They are clearly the model to aspire to.

More generally, the way the restart was set up in the pro14 can't be said to have been fair to everyone but I think it has actually worked out ok. All the main contenders got a chance and we got a winner relatively quickly.

Based on the team lists posted on the EMB for the prem and the games I have seen, it is a mess down there. Each game comes down largely to which team has selected their B team. Will be good for a few players' development but doesn't make for a satisfying season and increases the impact on next season.

No news yet that I have seen on the proX start for next season though.


I think if it is a 12 they split 6 and 6, play H+A v division and then once v the other division. Add in the semi and final that means 18 games.

Cameo
Posts: 1559
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2016 9:14 pm

Re: 1872 Cup Champions

Postby Cameo » Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:02 am

Big D wrote:
Cameo wrote:Not worth a new thread but Leinster won the title on Saturday. They are clearly the model to aspire to.

More generally, the way the restart was set up in the pro14 can't be said to have been fair to everyone but I think it has actually worked out ok. All the main contenders got a chance and we got a winner relatively quickly.

Based on the team lists posted on the EMB for the prem and the games I have seen, it is a mess down there. Each game comes down largely to which team has selected their B team. Will be good for a few players' development but doesn't make for a satisfying season and increases the impact on next season.

No news yet that I have seen on the proX start for next season though.


I think if it is a 12 they split 6 and 6, play H+A v division and then once v the other division. Add in the semi and final that means 18 games.


That wouldn't be the worst (though will be surprised if they don't fix it somehow to guarantee more derbies). Prefer not to have uneven fixture lists but would make sense to have a more streamlined year this year. Definitely better than midweek games anyway.

Big D
Posts: 4048
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2016 7:49 pm

Re: 1872 Cup Champions

Postby Big D » Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:26 am

Cameo wrote:
Big D wrote:
Cameo wrote:Not worth a new thread but Leinster won the title on Saturday. They are clearly the model to aspire to.

More generally, the way the restart was set up in the pro14 can't be said to have been fair to everyone but I think it has actually worked out ok. All the main contenders got a chance and we got a winner relatively quickly.

Based on the team lists posted on the EMB for the prem and the games I have seen, it is a mess down there. Each game comes down largely to which team has selected their B team. Will be good for a few players' development but doesn't make for a satisfying season and increases the impact on next season.

No news yet that I have seen on the proX start for next season though.


I think if it is a 12 they split 6 and 6, play H+A v division and then once v the other division. Add in the semi and final that means 18 games.


That wouldn't be the worst (though will be surprised if they don't fix it somehow to guarantee more derbies). Prefer not to have uneven fixture lists but would make sense to have a more streamlined year this year. Definitely better than midweek games anyway.


Aye, a 12 team single league would leave a possible 24 fixtures in a short period of time with plenty internationals and Europe squeezed in. A lot to ask of squads.

switchskier
Posts: 1274
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2016 3:10 pm

Re: 1872 Cup Champions

Postby switchskier » Sat Sep 19, 2020 8:33 am

Bordeaux game later this morning is on BT sport is anyone has it. Bit if a scrum half crises gives Shiel a big chance to shine. Interesting that they've gone with Button, who's with Heriot's I think rather than Froastwick for the bench. 6/2 split as well which leaves us very short of ten cover with no Chamberlain.

Bordeaux: Ducuing, Cordero, Dubie, Seuteni, Lam, Jalibert, Lesgourgues; Poirot, Maynadier, Cobilas, Douglas, Marais, Diaby, Petti, Tauleigne.

Replacements: Dweba, Kaulashvili, Tameifuna, Cazeaux, Woki, Lucu, Botica, Uberti.

Edinburgh: Kinghorn, Graham, Johnstone, Taylor, Hoyland, van der Walt, Shiel; Schoeman, McInally, Berghan, Toolis, Gilchrist, Ritchie, Watson, Mata.

Replacements: Willemse, Sutherland, McCallum, Davidson, Bradbury, Haining, Nutton, Dean.

Mikey Brown
Posts: 7668
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 5:10 pm

Re: 1872 Cup Champions

Postby Mikey Brown » Sat Sep 19, 2020 9:35 am

I don’t even know who Frostwick is but he’s on the injury list.

Who goes to 10 of vdw goes down in minute 1? Kinghorn?

septic 9
Posts: 262
Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2019 9:19 am

Re: 1872 Cup Champions

Postby septic 9 » Sat Sep 19, 2020 9:57 am

Mikey Brown wrote:I don’t even know who Frostwick is but he’s on the injury list.

Who goes to 10 of vdw goes down in minute 1? Kinghorn?


Cockerill has confirmed Kinghorn covers 10, and said he doesn't intend to to take VDW off unless injured, and that he doesn't think Chamberlain is a viable option.

And confirms that this competition is below the league in his priorities. I get that bit, buy it begs the question why he wouldn't offer Chamberlain experience at some point, or even Kinghorn if he doesn't think Chamberlain is up to it. VDW cannot play every minute of every match.
All players develop differently of course but by way of contrast the Bordeaux 10 is 21, was first capped by France in 2018.
Charlie Shiel who seems to have been around for years makes about his third start, and has hardly had multi hours of game time off the bench - because Cockerill does not make changes until forced. Shiel had looked an excellent prospect until his last start against Glasgow where he found it tough, much tougher than last 10 against tiring teams.

Cockerill is the most conservative of coaches. Its a problem.

User avatar
General Zod
Posts: 1508
Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2016 12:32 pm

Re: 1872 Cup Champions

Postby General Zod » Sat Sep 19, 2020 1:53 pm

Great try there. Scott Hastings stole what I was half-way through typing - try made in the sevens team.

Mikey Brown
Posts: 7668
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 5:10 pm

Re: 1872 Cup Champions

Postby Mikey Brown » Sat Sep 19, 2020 2:00 pm

Infuriating to watch how passive VDW is with the ball on the rare occasion he doesn't kick it, just drifts sideways.

Mikey Brown
Posts: 7668
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 5:10 pm

Re: 1872 Cup Champions

Postby Mikey Brown » Sat Sep 19, 2020 2:06 pm

Once again Watson and Graham are the only players interested in actually accelerating on to the ball. They seem to be surprised every time a lone, static forward fails to break the line. Real Scotland stuff there.

switchskier
Posts: 1274
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2016 3:10 pm

Re: 1872 Cup Champions

Postby switchskier » Tue Sep 22, 2020 8:55 am

Mikey Brown wrote:Infuriating to watch how passive VDW is with the ball on the rare occasion he doesn't kick it, just drifts sideways.


The entire game was infuriating. Stupid errors but got themselves in position to win it but failed to seal the deal. Graham very good again but there's still lack of creativity and spark in that backline. Surely it must be time to move on from Hodge? We've not looked threatening or exciting in the 5 years he's been coaching the backs, no matter who's playing.

Interesting interview with Sam Thompson in the Sunday times this week. Most probably an unhappy squad player on his way out but could be the first signs of a shift from the cockers shake up wearing off and parts of the squad getting fed up.


septic 9
Posts: 262
Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2019 9:19 am

Re: 1872 Cup Champions

Postby septic 9 » Tue Sep 22, 2020 9:52 am

switchskier wrote:
Mikey Brown wrote:Infuriating to watch how passive VDW is with the ball on the rare occasion he doesn't kick it, just drifts sideways.


The entire game was infuriating. Stupid errors but got themselves in position to win it but failed to seal the deal. Graham very good again but there's still lack of creativity and spark in that backline. Surely it must be time to move on from Hodge? We've not looked threatening or exciting in the 5 years he's been coaching the backs, no matter who's playing.



I guess edin did have a chance to win this but being blunt about it they didn't deserve to. The chance they had is the chance each non favourite had since the re-start - all teams look very rusty, play like warm up games so basic errors are more frequent. Exploit those and you win. But Edin were just as rusty (despite playing more games than the French) and choked again. Like against Ulster.

Plus side is Sheil did well considering that was just hos 3rd start I think. Not the easy darts you expect in the last 15mins off the bench, but a mature if not spectacular performance. I will say I though his pass was not as crisp or as quick away as I expect from him - too many steps/half steps before the pass, almost a Laidlaw tribute. But I also think that was almost entirely down to the slow realignment of the next pod (an old Edin failing, including under Cockerill), and looking to see how deep VDW was standing. 10 is a real issue, no back line no matter who coached by will prosper under a 10 who stands that deep even off good ball.

Oh and Gilchrist and Willemse gave away their routine brain dead pens. So deoendable.

septic 9
Posts: 262
Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2019 9:19 am

Re: 1872 Cup Champions

Postby septic 9 » Tue Sep 22, 2020 9:59 am

switchskier wrote:
Interesting interview with Sam Thompson in the Sunday times this week. Most probably an unhappy squad player on his way out but could be the first signs of a shift from the cockers shake up wearing off and parts of the squad getting fed up.



that was my first reaction player - fringe player moans because he didn't get a look in. Except Thomson got quite a bit of game time in his spell, far more than you'd expect a short term squad filler to get, so it could go deeper into how Cockerill treats anyone not rated as in his top squad. Haven't read the article but the lines you quote he talks about the environment being toxic - could be a wider issue among the squad not welcoming players in. Edinburgh problem not that long ago, players getting way above themselves. Last 2 weeks should have sorted that anyway


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 24 guests