Scotland v Ireland (Men's)

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Donny osmond
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Re: RE: Re: Scotland v Ireland (Men's)

Postby Donny osmond » Sun Feb 02, 2020 10:39 am

Mikey Brown wrote:Oh Jesus I’d forgotten about that moment. That’s was fucking criminal that we didn’t manage to score then.
Yeah, even leaving aside Hoggs howler, there were at least 2 clear cut tries left out on the pitch. SJ's intercept was one, and we had a 3 on 2 down the left but HJ stepped inside and tried an offload, that Ireland intercepted, instead of just drawing the defender.

Overall I can see the positives compared to our world cup performances, but compared to where we were 2 years ago it doesn't feel like we've made any real improvements... and the stupid stupid individual mistakes are still costing us dear.

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Mikey Brown
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Re: Scotland v Ireland (Men's)

Postby Mikey Brown » Sun Feb 02, 2020 10:54 am

Trying to be positive, perhaps some of the individual errors are a natural part of the process, changing strategies and personnel. But that’s a bit of a reach for the kind of mistakes and the experience of the players making those errors.

I’m a bit worried we’ve jumped the gun with regards to Huw Jones being back in form.

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Re: Scotland v Ireland (Men's)

Postby Donny osmond » Sun Feb 02, 2020 11:06 am

He wasn't great but wasn't that bad either, I guess his confidence will be a little down which may mean he's trying a bit harder than he needs to.

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septic 9
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Re: Scotland v Ireland (Men's)

Postby septic 9 » Sun Feb 02, 2020 11:14 am

Bergan pulling out ill before the game - apparently was not the only player in camp who was ill, there were several. Including Haining - even better performance and explains perhaps why he ran out of gas and the sub was later than it should be

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General Zod
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Re: Scotland v Ireland (Men's)

Postby General Zod » Sun Feb 02, 2020 12:25 pm

septic 9 wrote:Bergan pulling out ill before the game - apparently was not the only player in camp who was ill, there were several. Including Haining - even better performance and explains perhaps why he ran out of gas and the sub was later than it should be


Can be doing without that shit before Saturday.

I typed out a post at about 3am yesterday but it doesn't look like it worked. In the forwards, I thought Sutherland was good, as were Cummings and Ritchie. The backs didn’t really seem to get going - Jones missed a couple of tackles that I saw. I wasn’t looking at him in particular, but it seemed that of the missed tackles, his were probably more significant/ makeable. Couldn’t really tell whether Hutch was better in the short time available.

septic 9
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Re: Scotland v Ireland (Men's)

Postby septic 9 » Sun Feb 02, 2020 12:43 pm

General Zod wrote:
septic 9 wrote:Bergan pulling out ill before the game - apparently was not the only player in camp who was ill, there were several. Including Haining - even better performance and explains perhaps why he ran out of gas and the sub was later than it should be


Can be doing without that shit before Saturday.

I typed out a post at about 3am yesterday but it doesn't look like it worked. In the forwards, I thought Sutherland was good, as were Cummings and Ritchie. The backs didn’t really seem to get going - Jones missed a couple of tackles that I saw. I wasn’t looking at him in particular, but it seemed that of the missed tackles, his were probably more significant/ makeable. Couldn’t really tell whether Hutch was better in the short time available.


pack were all very good I thought. Just lack some plan and structure near the line. Just pick and crash never going to get through that lot - typically no latchers to get that last few inches like Exeter. Sarries, Munster, Leinster, Ireland .....Ireland don't need to flood the carrier because of that so have a man spare to jackal (illegally of course but) - its not a new failing and sad to say Nel the most obvious one near the end

septic 9
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Re: Scotland v Ireland (Men's)

Postby septic 9 » Sun Feb 02, 2020 12:44 pm

General Zod wrote: Can be doing without that shit before Saturday.


sounded like the squad could have done without that shit before the game, literally :lol:

Mikey Brown
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Re: Scotland v Ireland (Men's)

Postby Mikey Brown » Sun Feb 02, 2020 1:55 pm

septic 9 wrote:Bergan pulling out ill before the game - apparently was not the only player in camp who was ill, there were several. Including Haining - even better performance and explains perhaps why he ran out of gas and the sub was later than it should be


Meaning CDP has been ill too?

Mikey Brown
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Re: Scotland v Ireland (Men's)

Postby Mikey Brown » Sun Feb 02, 2020 2:06 pm


Big D
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Re: Scotland v Ireland (Men's)

Postby Big D » Sun Feb 02, 2020 3:01 pm

Mikey Brown wrote:
septic 9 wrote:Bergan pulling out ill before the game - apparently was not the only player in camp who was ill, there were several. Including Haining - even better performance and explains perhaps why he ran out of gas and the sub was later than it should be


Meaning CDP has been ill too?


Hogg, Berghan and Haining were the ones name checked as ill.

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Re: Scotland v Ireland (Men's)

Postby Mikey Brown » Sun Feb 02, 2020 3:30 pm

Yeah. I was trying to understand why Haining being ill meant he wasn’t replaced sooner.

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Re: Scotland v Ireland (Men's)

Postby Big D » Sun Feb 02, 2020 3:37 pm

Mikey Brown wrote:Yeah. I was trying to understand why Haining being ill meant he wasn’t replaced sooner.


Townsend was slow with a lot of the subs.

septic 9
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Re: Scotland v Ireland (Men's)

Postby septic 9 » Sun Feb 02, 2020 8:09 pm

Mikey Brown wrote:Yeah. I was trying to understand why Haining being ill meant he wasn’t replaced sooner.


was suggested to me that those named were the worst affected

septic 9
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Re: Scotland v Ireland (Men's)

Postby septic 9 » Sun Feb 02, 2020 8:19 pm

Big D wrote:
Mikey Brown wrote:Yeah. I was trying to understand why Haining being ill meant he wasn’t replaced sooner.


Townsend was slow with a lot of the subs.


could see why he was slow with Nel for Fagerson, otherwise only Haining Johnson could be considered "late". Haining for sure was late, not sure what was to be gained by subbing Johnson earlier

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Re: Scotland v Ireland (Men's)

Postby Big D » Sun Feb 02, 2020 9:35 pm

septic 9 wrote:
Big D wrote:
Mikey Brown wrote:Yeah. I was trying to understand why Haining being ill meant he wasn’t replaced sooner.


Townsend was slow with a lot of the subs.


could see why he was slow with Nel for Fagerson, otherwise only Haining Johnson could be considered "late". Haining for sure was late, not sure what was to be gained by subbing Johnson earlier


I thought Jones could have been off well before 65th minute.

Just checked, I thought the Horne for Price swap was later than 65th.

Cameo
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Re: Scotland v Ireland (Men's)

Postby Cameo » Mon Feb 03, 2020 12:33 am

I'm sure Brown gave away a blocking penalty first half too?

You guys are a lot more down on Jones than I am. Defence wasn't perfect but improved. In attack I thought he looked sharp and the intercepted offload was a bit unlucky (/good defence). I don't think it was a situation where a simple pass and draw would have worked. Defences (especially with a full back covering) are very good at covering 3 on 2s.

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Re: Scotland v Ireland (Men's)

Postby Mikey Brown » Mon Feb 03, 2020 11:34 am

Rewatching the game because I was pretty distracted throughout on Saturday. Sutherland, Cummings, Fagerson and Haining all really putting it about in the opening 10 minutes.

There's an odd moments where an Ireland players drops the ball, Haining falls on it and then VDF wins the penalty on the ground by sealing it off. I'm sort of confused here as there has been no tackle but he's done for not releasing. Is Haining not meant to be allowed a chance to get up? It seems like one of those odd grey areas in the laws.

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Re: Scotland v Ireland (Men's)

Postby Big D » Mon Feb 03, 2020 11:46 am

Mikey Brown wrote:Rewatching the game because I was pretty distracted throughout on Saturday. Sutherland, Cummings, Fagerson and Haining all really putting it about in the opening 10 minutes.

There's an odd moments where an Ireland players drops the ball, Haining falls on it and then VDF wins the penalty on the ground by sealing it off. I'm sort of confused here as there has been no tackle but he's done for not releasing. Is Haining not meant to be allowed a chance to get up? It seems like one of those odd grey areas in the laws.


You don't have to let him up but you can't dive on him. IIRC you are allowed to make a play for the ball.

septic 9
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Re: Scotland v Ireland (Men's)

Postby septic 9 » Mon Feb 03, 2020 1:12 pm

Big D wrote:
Mikey Brown wrote:Rewatching the game because I was pretty distracted throughout on Saturday. Sutherland, Cummings, Fagerson and Haining all really putting it about in the opening 10 minutes.

There's an odd moments where an Ireland players drops the ball, Haining falls on it and then VDF wins the penalty on the ground by sealing it off. I'm sort of confused here as there has been no tackle but he's done for not releasing. Is Haining not meant to be allowed a chance to get up? It seems like one of those odd grey areas in the laws.


You don't have to let him up but you can't dive on him. IIRC you are allowed to make a play for the ball.


that's the law.

A few of the turnovers we are being criticised for were hugely suspicious. It is always suspicious when everyone is on the floor and the ball suddenly squirts on the opposite side from where it was taken in. Once is unusual, twice or 3 times?

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Re: Scotland v Ireland (Men's)

Postby Mikey Brown » Mon Feb 03, 2020 1:13 pm

Only watching this in short bursts but Maitland has been very good in the first 25. Felt I needed to say that after slagging him off so much at the time. The missed tackle later on was just so pathetic it's a struggle to praise him at all.

septic 9
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Re: Scotland v Ireland (Men's)

Postby septic 9 » Mon Feb 03, 2020 1:15 pm

Big D wrote:

I thought Jones could have been off well before 65th minute.
.


maybe, but maybe not if you are trying to win the match and are bringing on Harris.

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Re: Scotland v Ireland (Men's)

Postby Big D » Mon Feb 03, 2020 1:19 pm

septic 9 wrote:
Big D wrote:

I thought Jones could have been off well before 65th minute.
.


maybe, but maybe not if you are trying to win the match and are bringing on Harris.


He could have brought on Hutchinson to be fair.

Ultimately not sure if it would have made any difference, we hardly used our outside backs in the game.

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Re: Scotland v Ireland (Men's)

Postby Mikey Brown » Mon Feb 03, 2020 1:51 pm

septic 9 wrote:
Big D wrote:
Mikey Brown wrote:Rewatching the game because I was pretty distracted throughout on Saturday. Sutherland, Cummings, Fagerson and Haining all really putting it about in the opening 10 minutes.

There's an odd moments where an Ireland players drops the ball, Haining falls on it and then VDF wins the penalty on the ground by sealing it off. I'm sort of confused here as there has been no tackle but he's done for not releasing. Is Haining not meant to be allowed a chance to get up? It seems like one of those odd grey areas in the laws.


You don't have to let him up but you can't dive on him. IIRC you are allowed to make a play for the ball.


that's the law.

A few of the turnovers we are being criticised for were hugely suspicious. It is always suspicious when everyone is on the floor and the ball suddenly squirts on the opposite side from where it was taken in. Once is unusual, twice or 3 times?


Just noticed a particularly egregious one of these in the moments before Stander's break (following Brown's rather dim blocking penalty) and closely followed by POM shoulder charging Hastings high and off the ball. Neither incident picked up.

I might just give up rewatching this because it's too fucking irritating.

Edit- oh wow. POM did get called out. No card and then we spoon it infield for Ireland to counter. Beautiful stuff. Better turn this off now.

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Re: Scotland v Ireland (Men's)

Postby Mikey Brown » Tue Feb 04, 2020 4:42 pm

Right. Finally finished watching it back and actually it wasn't as bad as I initially thought. As ever that has the qualifier that this would be a reasonable base-line level of performance, but with big improvements required to turn that into meaningful results.

Early days for a (slightly) new coaching setup. Definitely some promising stuff in the set-pieces, but we got wrecked at the breakdown a couple of times. Our tactics/decision making about when/where to put people in is still all over the place and I don't know how you really coach that. Many of Raynal's decisions were still totally absurd this time around but we need to be able to adapt to that too.

Sutherland even better on a second viewing. Maitland while not actively good was actually putting in a lot of work and not exactly given much to latch on to.

GT's use of subs still annoys me. Keeping Hutchinson on the bench for so long with Jones offering so little was frustrating. I actually feel Hutchinson's strengths are the quite well suited to how we try to attack in the 13 channel, but GT seems to have decided he is a 12 now. If we're going to play the game 10 metres behind the gain-line we need the best passers and decision makers possible. It seems we're at least trying to be a bit more direct in the forwards but still determined to go round the houses in the backs.

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Re: Scotland v Ireland (Men's)

Postby Mikey Brown » Tue Feb 04, 2020 4:56 pm

I'm aware this also doesn't matter but what was the deal with that last scrum. From what I could tell WP Nel absolutely demolished Healy and had him standing upright, almost falling backwards over his second rows. I just don't know what it is that makes a ref decide to call a scrum pen or not.


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