World Cup Training Squad

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ad_tigger
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Re: World Cup Training Squad

Postby ad_tigger » Thu Jul 04, 2019 9:35 pm

Perhaps Jones has just decided he wants his half backs on club pairings. Makes even more sense if chips doesn't actually have a meaningful shout of a place.

Scrumhead
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Re: World Cup Training Squad

Postby Scrumhead » Thu Jul 04, 2019 10:12 pm

TBH, that would make more sense than a lot of his selection choices.

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Re: World Cup Training Squad

Postby twitchy » Fri Jul 05, 2019 12:25 pm


Raggs
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Re: World Cup Training Squad

Postby Raggs » Fri Jul 05, 2019 4:03 pm

I wonder if he'll try cips out at fullback? Better positioning than Daly and probably no worse in defence because of it.

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Oakboy
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Re: World Cup Training Squad

Postby Oakboy » Fri Jul 05, 2019 4:27 pm

Raggs wrote:I wonder if he'll try cips out at fullback? Better positioning than Daly and probably no worse in defence because of it.


Previously, Jones has always seemed to want counter-attacking pace from his FB and an ability to at least beat the first defender. That points to Daly, Watson, Nowell or May. If he is to change that approach why not select Brown or Goode? But then, I'd pick Cips at 10 in a heartbeat.

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Re: World Cup Training Squad

Postby Raggs » Fri Jul 05, 2019 5:11 pm

He wanted Daly for more playmaking i believe.

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Re: World Cup Training Squad

Postby Freddo » Fri Jul 05, 2019 7:07 pm

He has made the hard decisions now. I think it is fairly easy to figure out who will be in the 31 man squad. Ewels, Ludlam, Cipriani, Moon, Heinz, Francis, McConnochie all left out.

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Re: World Cup Training Squad

Postby Oakboy » Fri Jul 05, 2019 7:34 pm

Freddo wrote:He has made the hard decisions now. I think it is fairly easy to figure out who will be in the 31 man squad. Ewels, Ludlam, Cipriani, Moon, Heinz, Francis, McConnochie all left out.


Seems likely. You think he'll leave T'eo in?

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Stom
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Re: World Cup Training Squad

Postby Stom » Fri Jul 05, 2019 7:39 pm

Oakboy wrote:
Freddo wrote:He has made the hard decisions now. I think it is fairly easy to figure out who will be in the 31 man squad. Ewels, Ludlam, Cipriani, Moon, Heinz, Francis, McConnochie all left out.


Seems likely. You think he'll leave T'eo in?


Yes.

I think we're looking at:

Mako, Marler, Genge
George, LCD
Sinckler, Cole, Williams
Itoje, Lawes
Kruis, Launch
Wilson, Shields
Curry, Underhill
Billy
Youngs, Spencer
Farrell, Ford
May, Coka
Tuilagi, Te'o
Slade, Joseph
Watson, Nowell
Daly

And who is 31?

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Re: World Cup Training Squad

Postby Oakboy » Fri Jul 05, 2019 7:57 pm

Stom wrote:
Oakboy wrote:
Freddo wrote:He has made the hard decisions now. I think it is fairly easy to figure out who will be in the 31 man squad. Ewels, Ludlam, Cipriani, Moon, Heinz, Francis, McConnochie all left out.


Seems likely. You think he'll leave T'eo in?


Yes.

I think we're looking at:

Mako, Marler, Genge
George, LCD
Sinckler, Cole, Williams
Itoje, Lawes
Kruis, Launch
Wilson, Shields
Curry, Underhill
Billy
Youngs, Spencer
Farrell, Ford
May, Coka
Tuilagi, Te'o
Slade, Joseph
Watson, Nowell
Daly

And who is 31?


Singleton?

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Re: World Cup Training Squad

Postby Scrumhead » Fri Jul 05, 2019 7:59 pm

Yeah - that won’t be far off.

Only 2 hookers and 2 scrum halves is a risk, but given the third choice in either position is uncapped (Singleton and Heinz), it looks like that’s where we’re headed.

Personally, of the players Eddie has picked, I’d take the same squad except for Cipriani in place of Te’o (Farrell covering 12).

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Re: World Cup Training Squad

Postby Stom » Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:03 pm

Scrumhead wrote:Yeah - that won’t be far off.

Only 2 hookers and 2 scrum halves is a risk, but given the third choice in either position is uncapped (Singleton and Heinz), it looks like that’s where we’re headed.

Personally, of the players Eddie has picked, I’d take the same squad except for Cipriani in place of Te’o (Farrell covering 12).


Still 1 player short...

I'd take Francis over Te'o, tbh...

I'd take anyone over Te'o, I just don't see what he brings at all.

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Re: World Cup Training Squad

Postby Puja » Fri Jul 05, 2019 9:27 pm

Scrumhead wrote:Yeah - that won’t be far off.

Only 2 hookers and 2 scrum halves is a risk, but given the third choice in either position is uncapped (Singleton and Heinz), it looks like that’s where we’re headed.

Personally, of the players Eddie has picked, I’d take the same squad except for Cipriani in place of Te’o (Farrell covering 12).

You *have* to take a third hooker, as you have to be able to have 2 hookers in every matchday squad. If we didn't have a third hooker, then it would mean that if George picked up a niggle and would miss Tonga, we'd have to drop him from the entire world cup in order to call up a replacement to field a legal XXIII. Unless one of the props is capable of hooking in extremis?

Agreed with everyone that Te'o is utterly worthless and a waste of a squad space, but will undoubtedly go nonetheless.

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richy678
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Re: World Cup Training Squad

Postby richy678 » Sat Jul 06, 2019 9:36 am

Puja wrote:
Scrumhead wrote:Yeah - that won’t be far off.

Only 2 hookers and 2 scrum halves is a risk, but given the third choice in either position is uncapped (Singleton and Heinz), it looks like that’s where we’re headed.

Personally, of the players Eddie has picked, I’d take the same squad except for Cipriani in place of Te’o (Farrell covering 12).

You *have* to take a third hooker, as you have to be able to have 2 hookers in every matchday squad. If we didn't have a third hooker, then it would mean that if George picked up a niggle and would miss Tonga, we'd have to drop him from the entire world cup in order to call up a replacement to field a legal XXIII. Unless one of the props is capable of hooking in extremis?

Agreed with everyone that Te'o is utterly worthless and a waste of a squad space, but will undoubtedly go nonetheless.

Puja


Agree - 3 Hookers is must. It would be a luxury to have a hooking prop, but that invariably unravels to mean the prop is ok at hooking, but cant throw in, so you look to, perhaps, a flanker who can throw in a bit, or a wing....or the scrum half...and it all gets a bit 4th XV.

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Re: World Cup Training Squad

Postby richy678 » Sat Jul 06, 2019 9:43 am

Stom wrote:
Oakboy wrote:
Freddo wrote:He has made the hard decisions now. I think it is fairly easy to figure out who will be in the 31 man squad. Ewels, Ludlam, Cipriani, Moon, Heinz, Francis, McConnochie all left out.


Seems likely. You think he'll leave T'eo in?


Yes.

I think we're looking at:

Mako, Marler, Genge
George, LCD
Sinckler, Cole, Williams
Itoje, Lawes
Kruis, Launch
Wilson, Shields
Curry, Underhill
Billy
Youngs, Spencer
Farrell, Ford
May, Coka
Tuilagi, Te'o
Slade, Joseph
Watson, Nowell
Daly

And who is 31?


Apart from Manu and T'eo is there a good enough strong powerhouse type centre playing in the Prem?

I don't think T'eo is good enough - or does enough.

Of the following pack of fringe centres, Lozowski has looked the most usefull to me. maybe too close to what Slade is supposed to bring.

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Re: World Cup Training Squad

Postby Stom » Sat Jul 06, 2019 9:49 am

richy678 wrote:
Stom wrote:
Oakboy wrote:
Seems likely. You think he'll leave T'eo in?


Yes.

I think we're looking at:

Mako, Marler, Genge
George, LCD
Sinckler, Cole, Williams
Itoje, Lawes
Kruis, Launch
Wilson, Shields
Curry, Underhill
Billy
Youngs, Spencer
Farrell, Ford
May, Coka
Tuilagi, Te'o
Slade, Joseph
Watson, Nowell
Daly

And who is 31?


Apart from Manu and T'eo is there a good enough strong powerhouse type centre playing in the Prem?

I don't think T'eo is good enough - or does enough.

Of the following pack of fringe centres, Lozowski has looked the most usefull to me. maybe too close to what Slade is supposed to bring.


Why do you need powerhouse?

Loz isn't good enough, imo.

Joseph is the best centre England have available. But...I know what team I would pick, I just don't think Eddie will pick it.

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Re: World Cup Training Squad

Postby richy678 » Sat Jul 06, 2019 9:58 am

Stom wrote:
richy678 wrote:
Stom wrote:
Yes.

I think we're looking at:

Mako, Marler, Genge
George, LCD
Sinckler, Cole, Williams
Itoje, Lawes
Kruis, Launch
Wilson, Shields
Curry, Underhill
Billy
Youngs, Spencer
Farrell, Ford
May, Coka
Tuilagi, Te'o
Slade, Joseph
Watson, Nowell
Daly

And who is 31?


Apart from Manu and T'eo is there a good enough strong powerhouse type centre playing in the Prem?

I don't think T'eo is good enough - or does enough.

Of the following pack of fringe centres, Lozowski has looked the most usefull to me. maybe too close to what Slade is supposed to bring.


Why do you need powerhouse?

Loz isn't good enough, imo.

Joseph is the best centre England have available. But...I know what team I would pick, I just don't think Eddie will pick it.


Ok - they should be good enough to play without a Basteuraud trucking it up - the otherside from that is not wanting to get outmuscled in the backs.

I agree JJ looks to have the best attributes of centre - great defender.

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Re: World Cup Training Squad

Postby Peej » Sat Jul 13, 2019 4:24 pm

Loz is a great defender too, and had Slade in his pocket in the Prem final, and has in fact in most of the games they've played against each other recently.

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Re: World Cup Training Squad

Postby Puja » Sat Jul 13, 2019 8:12 pm

Peej wrote:Loz is a great defender too, and had Slade in his pocket in the Prem final, and has in fact in most of the games they've played against each other recently.


Loz is a great tackler. I wouldn't necessarily say he's a great defender. Certainly not in the JJ sense where he makes the rest of the defensive line stronger with his organisation.

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Re: World Cup Training Squad

Postby Peej » Sun Jul 14, 2019 2:20 pm

Hmm good points. I suppose its Barritt who does all the organising at Sarries

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Re: World Cup Training Squad

Postby Scrumhead » Sun Jul 14, 2019 6:31 pm

Puja wrote:
Peej wrote:Loz is a great defender too, and had Slade in his pocket in the Prem final, and has in fact in most of the games they've played against each other recently.


Loz is a great tackler. I wouldn't necessarily say he's a great defender. Certainly not in the JJ sense where he makes the rest of the defensive line stronger with his organisation.

Puja


Yep. That’s fair, although I think he got better at defending at 13 towards the end of the season.

His versatility has counted against him in some ways as it was only in the second half of the season that he really cemented his place in one position (he played 12, 14 and 15 prior to that IIRC).

While he’s looked best at 13, playing there hasn’t done him any favours as he’s competing with Slade who is the man in possession (and had a great 6 Nations) and JJ, who is a top class, proven alternative. Unfortunately for him Tuilagi, Daly and Te’o are all more than comfortable playing there too, which puts him way down the list.

I’d have him instead of Te’o in a heartbeat and I’d also have him ahead of Francis, although I do think Francis is underrated and has the advantage of being more comfortable at 12.

It’s tough for him to miss out as he’s a very good player, but I expect next season may be difficult for him too. He’s not going to displace Barritt at 12 and I would imagine Daly will play 13, so it’s hard to see his fortunes changing that much. Slade and JJ will still be around for England post RWC and it’s surely only a matter of time before Marchant gets a shot too.

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Re: World Cup Training Squad

Postby Puja » Sun Jul 14, 2019 8:33 pm

I think he should look to settle at wing myself. He looked utterly mustard there when he had that run for Saracens mid-season.

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Re: World Cup Training Squad

Postby Oakboy » Mon Jul 15, 2019 8:01 am

Puja wrote:I think he should look to settle at wing myself. He looked utterly mustard there when he had that run for Saracens mid-season.

Puja


Has anyone from Saracens said that Daly will get the 13 shirt? I'm not sure I would pick him there ahead of Loz but I would definitely prefer Daly as a winger.

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Re: World Cup Training Squad

Postby Scrumhead » Mon Jul 15, 2019 8:15 am

He did look good there, but our conversation sums up the challenge with Lozowski.

I think he should aim to play at 12 and you think he should play on the wing, yet he’s played most of his best rugby at 13 ...

Being versatile has lots of benefits, but unfortunately for Lozowski, it’s not really doing him any favours when he’s competing with top-class specialists.

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Re: World Cup Training Squad

Postby Mikey Brown » Mon Jul 15, 2019 8:27 am

Lozowski is frustrating. Many of the same issues as Slade really. Handling not quite as slick but he's capable of hitting very hard and running very fast, it would be a shame not to see him make more of it.

Will be very interesting to see what McCall does with so many players who can play wing/13/15.

Anyone actually know what Lozowski's preferred position is if he has one? Seems he's not considered a fly-half at all any more, certainly less so than Goode.


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