Transfer news, fake news, baseless speculation, and various levels of truthiness - Season 2019/20

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Transfer news, fake news, baseless speculation, and various levels of truthiness - Season 2019/20

Postby Puja » Tue Jul 09, 2019 8:01 pm

Call me Travis Ismael. Some years ago - never mind how long precisely - having little or no prospects in their academy, and nothing particular to interest them in the Championship, Premiership clubs thought to sail about a little and see some of the journeymen of the world.

The story so far:
Leicester have performed their usual clearout of the deadwood, followed promptly by bringing some fresh deadwood back in.
Sale are celebrating being temporarily rich by importing the entirety of South Africa.
Northampton have gone the other way by picking up two Kiwis and otherwise recruiting young English players.
And Exeter have signed only four players, three of them lumpy locks, much to the chagrin of Quins fans.

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Re: Transfer news, fake news, baseless speculation, and various levels of truthiness - Season 2019/20

Postby Puja » Tue Jul 09, 2019 8:05 pm

A starter for 10 - Steffon Armitage has either decided that he's past England reckoning or that he's really going to test the foreign-based player rules to their limits by agreeing a move to San Diego Legion in the MLR next season.

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Re: Transfer news, fake news, baseless speculation, and various levels of truthiness - Season 2019/20

Postby Puja » Tue Jul 09, 2019 9:57 pm

Couple of interesting articles about stagnation of rugby wages and lots of players being left adrift with squad sizes shrinking:

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/rugby-ag ... -descisons
https://www.rugbypass.com/news/this-is- ... find-clubs

Dave Ward being left high and dry by ending his contract with Quins a year early to go to Leeds, only for their financing to fall through and leave him without a club. Thankfully, he's found a gig with Ampthill as player-coach, but it sounds like it's tough out there right now.

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Re: Transfer news, fake news, baseless speculation, and various levels of truthiness - Season 2019/20

Postby Stom » Wed Jul 10, 2019 6:22 am

Puja wrote:Couple of interesting articles about stagnation of rugby wages and lots of players being left adrift with squad sizes shrinking:

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/rugby-ag ... -descisons
https://www.rugbypass.com/news/this-is- ... find-clubs

Dave Ward being left high and dry by ending his contract with Quins a year early to go to Leeds, only for their financing to fall through and leave him without a club. Thankfully, he's found a gig with Ampthill as player-coach, but it sounds like it's tough out there right now.

Puja


We just signed Phil Swainston on a deal after not renewing his contract. In years gone by, he would have signed with someone else, no matter he's not shown anything like the ability to be more than 4th choice at Prem level in the past 4 years...

We also signed Mulchrone on a short term 3 month contract, transitioning to coaching after that. He's 30.

Considering his performances last year pre-injury, I would have expected many clubs to want a guy like him as 2nd/3rd choice scrummie. As it is, he's going to be our RWC cover for a few months before becoming a coach.

TBH, I think it's a good thing. While Mulchrone IS someone who is good enough to play top flight rugby, the other Quins without contracts are players like Swainston or Josh McNulty.

These 4th/5th choice props have been rotating around Prem clubs for years, playing around a dozen games over 5/6 seasons and only seemingly taking a wage incase there is an injury crisis.

I know we should be protecting the young props, but it seems like they should be able to play 1 to 2 games a season at 20, and we shouldn't have to sign a guy and pay him £30,000 a year to train.

And if there's an injury crisis, we have this thing called the loan system.

If you do look at the Quins ins/outs, there is a lot of deadwood on the out column...

But that's another one i thought had a club: Ben Glynn. He's not a world-beater, but he's a Premiership standard lock. He could easily be 4th choice somewhere and play 10-15 games a season.

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Re: Transfer news, fake news, baseless speculation, and various levels of truthiness - Season 2019/20

Postby Raggs » Wed Jul 10, 2019 1:53 pm

Lots of sides seem to be trying to rely on their academy more, and it's players like Glynn and Swainston that'll take the hit.

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Re: Transfer news, fake news, baseless speculation, and various levels of truthiness - Season 2019/20

Postby Scrumhead » Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:06 pm

True. Although I’m yet to be convinced signing Glen Young was a better move than keeping Ben Glynn. Hopefully he’s a pleasant surprise.

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Re: Transfer news, fake news, baseless speculation, and various levels of truthiness - Season 2019/20

Postby Mikey Brown » Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:50 am

https://www.quins.london/news/mark-mapl ... emy-coach/

Interesting move. Sean Long taking a more senior role is someone else lined up for this spot?

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Re: Transfer news, fake news, baseless speculation, and various levels of truthiness - Season 2019/20

Postby Mellsblue » Mon Jul 15, 2019 10:18 am

Josh Stauss leaves Sale for the Blue Bulls.

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Re: Transfer news, fake news, baseless speculation, and various levels of truthiness - Season 2019/20

Postby Mikey Brown » Mon Jul 15, 2019 10:50 am

Makes sense with all the backrow reinforcements coming in. Guess he'll be giving up the tartan headguard too.

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Re: Transfer news, fake news, baseless speculation, and various levels of truthiness - Season 2019/20

Postby Puja » Mon Jul 15, 2019 10:54 am

Soooooooo, we're not even going to comment on the Moby Dick pastiche? I thought it was funny or at least terrible enough to deserve mocking.

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Re: Transfer news, fake news, baseless speculation, and various levels of truthiness - Season 2019/20

Postby twitchy » Mon Jul 15, 2019 10:55 am

Yes, also that Jannes Kirsten is going from the bulls to exeter.

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Re: Transfer news, fake news, baseless speculation, and various levels of truthiness - Season 2019/20

Postby Adam_P » Mon Jul 15, 2019 11:49 am

Northampton have added JJ Tonks and Tommy Mathews to the senior academy from Glos. From the Saints site they appear to be a flanker and a fly half, any Glos fans got any opinions on their potential?

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Re: Transfer news, fake news, baseless speculation, and various levels of truthiness - Season 2019/20

Postby Scrumhead » Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:31 pm

Mellsblue wrote:Josh Stauss leaves Sale for the Blue Bulls.


Makes sense given the plethora of back row options they have.

I wonder how much business is left to be done for Premiership clubs? Still a few decent players looking for contracts.

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Re: Transfer news, fake news, baseless speculation, and various levels of truthiness - Season 2019/20

Postby Gloskarlos » Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:27 pm

Adam_P wrote:Northampton have added JJ Tonks and Tommy Mathews to the senior academy from Glos. From the Saints site they appear to be a flanker and a fly half, any Glos fans got any opinions on their potential?


Not seen either enough to give you a thorough synopsis, Tonks the better known, pretty dynamic from what I’ve heard. I know nothing about Mathews I’m afraid

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Re: Transfer news, fake news, baseless speculation, and various levels of truthiness - Season 2019/20

Postby jimKRFC » Mon Jul 15, 2019 11:31 pm

Bristol have some announcements to make tomorrow - tied down Tuesday they're calling it. I expect a bunch contract extensions...

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Re: Transfer news, fake news, baseless speculation, and various levels of truthiness - Season 2019/20

Postby Peej » Wed Jul 17, 2019 11:47 am

Scrumhead wrote:
Mellsblue wrote:Josh Stauss leaves Sale for the Blue Bulls.


Makes sense given the plethora of back row options they have.

I wonder how much business is left to be done for Premiership clubs? Still a few decent players looking for contracts.


Having raved about Jono Ross last season, Sale are basically not going to be picking him this current one when everyone is fit.

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Re: Transfer news, fake news, baseless speculation, and various levels of truthiness - Season 2019/20

Postby twitchy » Wed Jul 17, 2019 12:36 pm

Sale are such a weird club. I always think they are really close to being a top side. I hope they are at some point.

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Re: Transfer news, fake news, baseless speculation, and various levels of truthiness - Season 2019/20

Postby Mikey Brown » Wed Jul 17, 2019 1:03 pm

They do seem to really stack up their quality players in a few positions though and leave themselves pretty thin elsewhere.

Saying that I think, on paper, they look in a good place for this season.

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Re: Transfer news, fake news, baseless speculation, and various levels of truthiness - Season 2019/20

Postby Scrumhead » Wed Jul 17, 2019 6:02 pm

Definitely. Every signing they have made is an upgrade or a significant addition to their squad and they’ve not really lost anyone hugely significant (O’Connor’s a big name but hasn’t been a key player and Wilson and either of the Du Preez twins are better than Strauss).

Their young players like the Curry twins, Luke James and Redpath will keep getting better too.

I can see them being play off contenders.

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Re: Transfer news, fake news, baseless speculation, and various levels of truthiness - Season 2019/20

Postby Stom » Wed Jul 17, 2019 7:52 pm

Scrumhead wrote:Definitely. Every signing they have made is an upgrade or a significant addition to their squad and they’ve not really lost anyone hugely significant (O’Connor’s a big name but hasn’t been a key player and Wilson and either of the Du Preez twins are better than Strauss).

Their young players like the Curry twins, Luke James and Redpath will keep getting better too.

I can see them being play off contenders.


There's now a decent collection of sides under the top 2.

Quins
Glos
Saints
Sale
Brizzle
Tigers
Bath
Wasps

All have the potential to take points off each other, even if they do fit nicely into 2 groups of 4.

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Re: Transfer news, fake news, baseless speculation, and various levels of truthiness - Season 2019/20

Postby Digby » Thu Jul 18, 2019 9:58 am

Leicester should be removed from any list of decent sides until they show justification for such inclusion, Quins, Wasps, Bath and Bristol I'd also rank as maybes, which leaves me in the odd position of thinking both Sale and Glaws decent, and that hasn't happened often

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Re: Transfer news, fake news, baseless speculation, and various levels of truthiness - Season 2019/20

Postby Scrumhead » Thu Jul 18, 2019 10:45 am

What are you basing your yes/maybe decision on?

You seem to be happy to include Saints as a ‘decent side’, but they only just scraped past Quins in to the play-offs and had a very poor season in 17/18. Similar for Bath who have been mediocre for several seasons.

Let’s not forget it’s only the season before last that Tigers and Wasps were in the play-offs.

It’s hard to call, but right now, it’s hard to see a significant change from last season.

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Re: Transfer news, fake news, baseless speculation, and various levels of truthiness - Season 2019/20

Postby Mellsblue » Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:37 am

Given the general trajectory over the last few seasons, and the fact they’ve kept Atkinson despite huge money offers from all over the world, I’m sure no one would argue Glos are best of the rest.

Quins and Saints made huge strides last season under new coaches and you’d expect that to continue.

Sale/Diamond have proved repeatedly that if they spend enough they will be challenging for Champ Cup/playoffs.

Tigers are on a long term downward slope, have, I think, recruited ok, at best, have an unproven hc who took them to second bottom and upheaval in the boardroom. I can’t see them as anything other than bottom half.

Wasps are also on a downward slope, if not as steep or as long as Leicester’s. They’ve also lost two world class players in Le Roux and Daly, and club stalwart JCW who is a top Prem player...when fit. Not mention Hughes who, much as I don’t think he’s Eng standard, is a top Prem player. They also haven’t really replaced them. Fekitoa is quality but Toomuga-Allen is an unknown quantity in a NH scrum. They’ve also a marque FH who played like a drain last season.

Bristol should make strides this season as they really started climbing the table once they acclimatised to Prem rugby. They’ve also recruited two experienced campaigners and haven’t lost anyone of importance.

Bath haven’t recruited well and have a brand new HC who has never been a HC before. There also seems to be a rudderless feel about the club, beyond building projects.

I’d have Glos as clear next best. Quins, Saints and Sale in the next group, Bristol biting at their heels and then Bath, Wasps and Leicester pulling up the rear.
Last edited by Mellsblue on Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Transfer news, fake news, baseless speculation, and various levels of truthiness - Season 2019/20

Postby Digby » Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:40 am

Scrumhead wrote:What are you basing your yes/maybe decision on?

You seem to be happy to include Saints as a ‘decent side’, but they only just scraped past Quins in to the play-offs and had a very poor season in 17/18. Similar for Bath who have been mediocre for several seasons.

Let’s not forget it’s only the season before last that Tigers and Wasps were in the play-offs.

It’s hard to call, but right now, it’s hard to see a significant change from last season.


Saints look more consistent in what they deliver to me than a side like Quins. Saints probably surprised me more than any other side last season as I really didn't see such a quick and seemingly stable improvement, especially when spending so much on a big winger after North didn't really offer value for money

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Re: Transfer news, fake news, baseless speculation, and various levels of truthiness - Season 2019/20

Postby Peej » Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:43 am

Sale, for all their tenacity at home on wet Friday nights, are abysmal away. Until evidence is provided that that's been addressed, I think it might be over-stating it to have them as play off contenders already.

Wasps had an utter dismal season and yet still finished 7th. Whether that is a blip or a downward slide won't be clear until Christmas time.


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