Olympics

fivepointer
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Re: Olympics

Postby fivepointer » Thu Jul 29, 2021 9:13 am

The canoeing is a good watch. Very technical event.

Enjoyed the shooting earlier.

Digby
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Re: Olympics

Postby Digby » Thu Jul 29, 2021 9:45 am

Banquo wrote:
Digby wrote:
Banquo wrote:True, but the rowers have regressed more than one might have expected.


The rowing group think they're getting things right but there's a transition as they shift to a new style with Grobler having left. They could well be right, we shall see in time. Certainly they're not alone in trying to reform using criticism as a driver to improvements citing a greater concern for mental health

Yep Grobler a big loss and not much time to adjust. Its a disappointing effort though- the men's 4 in particular made a pretty basic error. As far as I know, they still get chunky funding.


They're taking the view losing Jurgen isn't a loss so much as a transition. Ideally for them something similar to swimming parting company with Bill Sweetenham though they're making the point Grobler's methods were far more entrenched throughout many more layers so the revamp could take a little time. Good point on the funding and they'll quickly learn the brutal hardships of how fast that funding goes if they don't get results soon

I don't know how much the rowers no longer expect the treatment they'd get from Grobler, I don't know how much I'd agree with the notion, nor which might prove the better method. But whatever they're trying something difference, and it'd have had to happen at some point

Big D
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Re: Olympics

Postby Big D » Thu Jul 29, 2021 9:52 am

Banquo wrote:
Digby wrote:
Banquo wrote:True, but the rowers have regressed more than one might have expected.


The rowing group think they're getting things right but there's a transition as they shift to a new style with Grobler having left. They could well be right, we shall see in time. Certainly they're not alone in trying to reform using criticism as a driver to improvements citing a greater concern for mental health

Yep Grobler a big loss and not much time to adjust. Its a disappointing effort though- the men's 4 in particular made a pretty basic error. As far as I know, they still get chunky funding.


It hasn't been a great Olympics for them and funding should reflect that. Fine margins though as the 4th places are totting up.

I really wanted Glover and Swann to get a medal but wasn't to be.

Banquo
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Re: Olympics

Postby Banquo » Thu Jul 29, 2021 10:36 am

Big D wrote:
Banquo wrote:
Digby wrote:
The rowing group think they're getting things right but there's a transition as they shift to a new style with Grobler having left. They could well be right, we shall see in time. Certainly they're not alone in trying to reform using criticism as a driver to improvements citing a greater concern for mental health

Yep Grobler a big loss and not much time to adjust. Its a disappointing effort though- the men's 4 in particular made a pretty basic error. As far as I know, they still get chunky funding.


It hasn't been a great Olympics for them and funding should reflect that. Fine margins though as the 4th places are totting up.

I really wanted Glover and Swann to get a medal but wasn't to be.

On funding you have take into account potential as suppose. I think it is the fine margins that would be the regret, and speculatively may not have happened under Grobler....plus, covid will have hampered crew preparation for sure. But still a disappointment, because of the way the 4ths have happened as much as anything.

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Re: Olympics

Postby Big D » Thu Jul 29, 2021 12:15 pm

Banquo wrote:
Big D wrote:
Banquo wrote:Yep Grobler a big loss and not much time to adjust. Its a disappointing effort though- the men's 4 in particular made a pretty basic error. As far as I know, they still get chunky funding.


It hasn't been a great Olympics for them and funding should reflect that. Fine margins though as the 4th places are totting up.

I really wanted Glover and Swann to get a medal but wasn't to be.

On funding you have take into account potential as suppose. I think it is the fine margins that would be the regret, and speculatively may not have happened under Grobler....plus, covid will have hampered crew preparation for sure. But still a disappointment, because of the way the 4ths have happened as much as anything.


Absolutely. Except for Glover and Swann, their achievement in such a short time is pretty remarkable.

Banquo
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Re: Olympics

Postby Banquo » Thu Jul 29, 2021 12:19 pm

Big D wrote:
Banquo wrote:
Big D wrote:
It hasn't been a great Olympics for them and funding should reflect that. Fine margins though as the 4th places are totting up.

I really wanted Glover and Swann to get a medal but wasn't to be.

On funding you have take into account potential as suppose. I think it is the fine margins that would be the regret, and speculatively may not have happened under Grobler....plus, covid will have hampered crew preparation for sure. But still a disappointment, because of the way the 4ths have happened as much as anything.


Absolutely. Except for Glover and Swann, their achievement in such a short time is pretty remarkable.

yep. I also think we hadn't spotted what standard would be needed to win- Helen Glover was surprised at how far behind her crew was at the outset of their event.

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Galfon
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Re: Olympics

Postby Galfon » Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:05 am

'It is GB's lowest rowing medal tally at a Games since they won two at Atlanta 1996, and the first time they have not won at least one gold since 1980.' (beeb)
bmx & taekwando have gone well - the effect of these on the UK sport 'podium' and 'progression' funding awards could be interesting.

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Re: Olympics

Postby Banquo » Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:11 am

Galfon wrote:'It is GB's lowest rowing medal tally at a Games since they won two at Atlanta 1996, and the first time they have not won at least one gold since 1980.' (beeb)
bmx & taekwando have gone well - the effect of these on the UK sport 'podium' and 'progression' funding awards could be interesting.

They’ll be very disappointed with all the 4ths!

Donny osmond
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Re: RE: Re: Olympics

Postby Donny osmond » Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:40 am

Banquo wrote:
Galfon wrote:'It is GB's lowest rowing medal tally at a Games since they won two at Atlanta 1996, and the first time they have not won at least one gold since 1980.' (beeb)
bmx & taekwando have gone well - the effect of these on the UK sport 'podium' and 'progression' funding awards could be interesting.

They’ll be very disappointed with all the 4ths!
Well it is very disappointing. Got up and watched the men's 8 this morning and, perhaps unfairly, was just really pissed off with them for not responding to NZ charge.

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Donny osmond
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Re: Olympics

Postby Donny osmond » Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:42 am

Er.... BMX? Are we a BMX power now?

It's a bizarre sport to watch, esp the men who are big guys on tiny little bikes with tiny little cranks and it seems to just be who can fly over the jumps the best before pedaling amusingly quickly to amusingly little effect before hitting another jump.

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Galfon
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Re: Olympics

Postby Galfon » Fri Jul 30, 2021 8:39 am

Donny osmond wrote:Er.... BMX? Are we a BMX power now?

It's a bizarre sport to watch, esp the men who are big guys on tiny little bikes with tiny little cranks and it seems to just be who can fly over the jumps the best before pedaling amusingly quickly to amusingly little effect before hitting another jump.

Success here suggests we are good at something - certainly bmx courses appear more accessible these days; Does seem odd to be a 'lympic sport but you could say that about quite a few other pursuits, from an in-the-mud stick point of view.

Banquo
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Re: Olympics

Postby Banquo » Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:28 am

Interesting stuff on Grobler coming out now; marmite on methods, but you can't deny the results. Interesting 'culture war' like we've heard about in cycling and swimming......

After its worst Olympic performance for 45 years, the culture war engulfing British Rowing has taken an extraordinarily toxic turn, with men’s eight bronze medallist Josh Bugajski accusing former coach Jurgen Grobler of “destroying” athletes.

In a remarkable interview, laying bare the strife behind the country’s most dismal medal return in an Olympic regatta since 1976, Bugajski alleged that Grobler, who retired in August 2020, had made his life a misery for three years with his brutal training methods.

“I’m going to be brave and say something that the crew don’t want me to say,” said Bugajski, bowman of the eight that took bronze here at Tokyo’s Sea Forest Waterway. “I cracked open a bottle of champagne when Jurgen retired. I had three very dark years under him. And I think I’d be a coward if I didn’t say that on behalf of the guys who are stuck at home, because they got a darker side of Jurgen and they aren’t in the team.

“There were some people he just seemed to take a disliking to. What he did to them was just destroy them – destroy their soul, destroy everything they had. He had complete power. If you didn’t get funding for a boat, your funding was never going to go up. I was pretty much broke for a year or so. My relationship suffered, my friendships suffered. Everything suffered. I’m very grateful to have a wonderful fiancée, a wonderful family back home. They look after me whenever they can.”

Grobler retired from his role in August 2020

Bugajski’s searing comments exposed a divide not just within British Rowing, but within the same boat, as his crew-mate Moe Sbihi rushed to defend Grobler, under whom he won gold in Rio in 2016. “He is a winner,” said Sbihi, Britain’s flag-carrier at these Games. “He is a notorious winner, he has bred winners. Jurgen knew how to elevate people.

“I have stayed in contact with him as a human, not just as part of an athlete-coach relationship. He is somebody who p----- me off as much as made me really happy. I spoke to him briefly only this week – just to say thank you to him. I feel very grateful for the legacy he has put in place.”

Grobler has always insisted that his extreme regime across three decades, which would involve camps in Spain’s Sierra Nevada where athletes trained until they were physically sick, were for his athletes’ benefit. His results spoke for themselves, with five consecutive golds in the men’s four alone. Britain’s displays in Tokyo have shown the steepest decline since his departure, as the team failed to win a single gold for the first time since 1980. Having reached eight finals, they finished fourth six times. After coming top of the rowing medals count in Beijing, London and Rio, they were 14th here.

The men's eight won bronze on Friday morning, but Team GB have failed to meet expectations at Tokyo

For a sport that received £24.6 million in Lottery funding over the five-year Olympic cycle to Tokyo, that is a startling under-performance. “We’re a highly-funded sport,” Sbihi acknowledged. “We should be doing better.”

Brendan Purcell, British Rowing’s performance director, knew that a harsh reckoning awaited. “If you look purely at medals, we had a four-medal target,” he said. “We didn’t meet our own expectations. We can’t hide from that.”

While an unofficial “medals and more” philosophy is upheld by Team GB in Tokyo, in an attempt to distance themselves from the bullying scandals that have blighted several Olympic sports, Purcell cast doubt on whether the cultural shift was working.

“If the athletes don’t want to put themselves in that brutal environment, then we pack up shop,” he said. “We need to bring in the right athletes who want to take that step. Then we take them to the next level.”

fivepointer
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Re: Olympics

Postby fivepointer » Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:31 am

The BMX racing is great fun. Gold and silver are terrific results.

The rowing team have been a disappointment. Too many changes at the top and in the coaching hierarchy, and a rather inexperienced group of rowers seem to have combined to see our results dip. This is a sport that has been one of our most successful over the last 30 years so I wouldnt he too hard on them, though plainly they will need to produce a lot better in Paris.

Banquo
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Re: Olympics

Postby Banquo » Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:35 am

fivepointer wrote:The BMX racing is great fun. Gold and silver are terrific results.

The rowing team have been a disappointment. Too many changes at the top and in the coaching hierarchy, and a rather inexperienced group of rowers seem to have combined to see our results dip. This is a sport that has been one of our most successful over the last 30 years so I wouldnt he too hard on them, though plainly they will need to produce a lot better in Paris.

Agreed on rowers, plus I'd think there is a bit of the covid factor at play, esp with a lot of new combos. The 6 4th places are relevent for two reasons- a- that's respectable if we were scoring points rather than medals (we aren't, but hey), and b- have we skipped the marginal gains a bit. I'd also say I'm always a bit disappointed when a competitor says I'm happy with 4th, 'its been a great journey'- be interested to see how many 'PBs' there were in rowing.

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Mellsblue
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Re: Olympics

Postby Mellsblue » Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:20 am

Banquo wrote:Interesting stuff on Grobler coming out now; marmite on methods, but you can't deny the results. Interesting 'culture war' like we've heard about in cycling and swimming......

After its worst Olympic performance for 45 years, the culture war engulfing British Rowing has taken an extraordinarily toxic turn, with men’s eight bronze medallist Josh Bugajski accusing former coach Jurgen Grobler of “destroying” athletes.

In a remarkable interview, laying bare the strife behind the country’s most dismal medal return in an Olympic regatta since 1976, Bugajski alleged that Grobler, who retired in August 2020, had made his life a misery for three years with his brutal training methods.

“I’m going to be brave and say something that the crew don’t want me to say,” said Bugajski, bowman of the eight that took bronze here at Tokyo’s Sea Forest Waterway. “I cracked open a bottle of champagne when Jurgen retired. I had three very dark years under him. And I think I’d be a coward if I didn’t say that on behalf of the guys who are stuck at home, because they got a darker side of Jurgen and they aren’t in the team.

“There were some people he just seemed to take a disliking to. What he did to them was just destroy them – destroy their soul, destroy everything they had. He had complete power. If you didn’t get funding for a boat, your funding was never going to go up. I was pretty much broke for a year or so. My relationship suffered, my friendships suffered. Everything suffered. I’m very grateful to have a wonderful fiancée, a wonderful family back home. They look after me whenever they can.”

Grobler retired from his role in August 2020

Bugajski’s searing comments exposed a divide not just within British Rowing, but within the same boat, as his crew-mate Moe Sbihi rushed to defend Grobler, under whom he won gold in Rio in 2016. “He is a winner,” said Sbihi, Britain’s flag-carrier at these Games. “He is a notorious winner, he has bred winners. Jurgen knew how to elevate people.

“I have stayed in contact with him as a human, not just as part of an athlete-coach relationship. He is somebody who p----- me off as much as made me really happy. I spoke to him briefly only this week – just to say thank you to him. I feel very grateful for the legacy he has put in place.”

Grobler has always insisted that his extreme regime across three decades, which would involve camps in Spain’s Sierra Nevada where athletes trained until they were physically sick, were for his athletes’ benefit. His results spoke for themselves, with five consecutive golds in the men’s four alone. Britain’s displays in Tokyo have shown the steepest decline since his departure, as the team failed to win a single gold for the first time since 1980. Having reached eight finals, they finished fourth six times. After coming top of the rowing medals count in Beijing, London and Rio, they were 14th here.

The men's eight won bronze on Friday morning, but Team GB have failed to meet expectations at Tokyo

For a sport that received £24.6 million in Lottery funding over the five-year Olympic cycle to Tokyo, that is a startling under-performance. “We’re a highly-funded sport,” Sbihi acknowledged. “We should be doing better.”

Brendan Purcell, British Rowing’s performance director, knew that a harsh reckoning awaited. “If you look purely at medals, we had a four-medal target,” he said. “We didn’t meet our own expectations. We can’t hide from that.”

While an unofficial “medals and more” philosophy is upheld by Team GB in Tokyo, in an attempt to distance themselves from the bullying scandals that have blighted several Olympic sports, Purcell cast doubt on whether the cultural shift was working.

“If the athletes don’t want to put themselves in that brutal environment, then we pack up shop,” he said. “We need to bring in the right athletes who want to take that step. Then we take them to the next level.”

Different generations need handling differently. I’ve heard from a handful of sources that players coming through rugby academies and into senior squads need a more kid gloves approach than the previous generation. I’m sure it’s always been like that as we move from generation to generation, but without the media spotlight that sport receives these days. Elite sport is pretty brutal, though, and I’m not convinced a less demanding environment in sports such as rowing and cycling is conducive to success..... assuming success is Olympic medals.
That said, there does seem to be a bit of tension between this years men and the Redgrave/Pinsent generation so it might just be personality clashes rather than a culture clash. One of the men’s four made a right fool of himself post race saying Cracknell etc would be happy they failed.

Banquo
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Re: Olympics

Postby Banquo » Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:26 am

Mellsblue wrote:
Banquo wrote:Interesting stuff on Grobler coming out now; marmite on methods, but you can't deny the results. Interesting 'culture war' like we've heard about in cycling and swimming......

After its worst Olympic performance for 45 years, the culture war engulfing British Rowing has taken an extraordinarily toxic turn, with men’s eight bronze medallist Josh Bugajski accusing former coach Jurgen Grobler of “destroying” athletes.

In a remarkable interview, laying bare the strife behind the country’s most dismal medal return in an Olympic regatta since 1976, Bugajski alleged that Grobler, who retired in August 2020, had made his life a misery for three years with his brutal training methods.

“I’m going to be brave and say something that the crew don’t want me to say,” said Bugajski, bowman of the eight that took bronze here at Tokyo’s Sea Forest Waterway. “I cracked open a bottle of champagne when Jurgen retired. I had three very dark years under him. And I think I’d be a coward if I didn’t say that on behalf of the guys who are stuck at home, because they got a darker side of Jurgen and they aren’t in the team.

“There were some people he just seemed to take a disliking to. What he did to them was just destroy them – destroy their soul, destroy everything they had. He had complete power. If you didn’t get funding for a boat, your funding was never going to go up. I was pretty much broke for a year or so. My relationship suffered, my friendships suffered. Everything suffered. I’m very grateful to have a wonderful fiancée, a wonderful family back home. They look after me whenever they can.”

Grobler retired from his role in August 2020

Bugajski’s searing comments exposed a divide not just within British Rowing, but within the same boat, as his crew-mate Moe Sbihi rushed to defend Grobler, under whom he won gold in Rio in 2016. “He is a winner,” said Sbihi, Britain’s flag-carrier at these Games. “He is a notorious winner, he has bred winners. Jurgen knew how to elevate people.

“I have stayed in contact with him as a human, not just as part of an athlete-coach relationship. He is somebody who p----- me off as much as made me really happy. I spoke to him briefly only this week – just to say thank you to him. I feel very grateful for the legacy he has put in place.”

Grobler has always insisted that his extreme regime across three decades, which would involve camps in Spain’s Sierra Nevada where athletes trained until they were physically sick, were for his athletes’ benefit. His results spoke for themselves, with five consecutive golds in the men’s four alone. Britain’s displays in Tokyo have shown the steepest decline since his departure, as the team failed to win a single gold for the first time since 1980. Having reached eight finals, they finished fourth six times. After coming top of the rowing medals count in Beijing, London and Rio, they were 14th here.

The men's eight won bronze on Friday morning, but Team GB have failed to meet expectations at Tokyo

For a sport that received £24.6 million in Lottery funding over the five-year Olympic cycle to Tokyo, that is a startling under-performance. “We’re a highly-funded sport,” Sbihi acknowledged. “We should be doing better.”

Brendan Purcell, British Rowing’s performance director, knew that a harsh reckoning awaited. “If you look purely at medals, we had a four-medal target,” he said. “We didn’t meet our own expectations. We can’t hide from that.”

While an unofficial “medals and more” philosophy is upheld by Team GB in Tokyo, in an attempt to distance themselves from the bullying scandals that have blighted several Olympic sports, Purcell cast doubt on whether the cultural shift was working.

“If the athletes don’t want to put themselves in that brutal environment, then we pack up shop,” he said. “We need to bring in the right athletes who want to take that step. Then we take them to the next level.”

Different generations need handling differently. I’ve heard from a handful of sources that players coming through rugby academies and into senior squads need a more kid gloves approach than the previous generation. I’m sure it’s always been like that as we move from generation to generation, but without the media spotlight that sport receives these days. Elite sport is pretty brutal, though, and I’m not convinced a less demanding environment in sports such as rowing and cycling is conducive to success..... assuming success is Olympic medals.
That said, there does seem to be a bit of tension between this years men and the Redgrave/Pinsent generation so it might just be personality clashes rather than a culture clash. One of the men’s four made a right fool of himself post race saying Cracknell etc would be happy they failed.

As I said, its 'interesting'. But as you said, you have to be made of the right stuff to compete at elite level- end of the day, you have to train until you are virtually unconscious and take criticism when you aren't performing. How you do this is important, and all coaches have different styles-- the best coach the individual with a bending of style. But when you are putting teams together, inevitably the coaches imprint is strong. There isn't a right way (there are wrong ways), but Grobler can point (and he won't) to a clear before and after.

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Which Tyler
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Re: Olympics

Postby Which Tyler » Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:37 am

7s on the red button now

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Which Tyler
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Re: Olympics

Postby Which Tyler » Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:55 am

Which Tyler wrote:7s on the red button now

And now on BBC1 with a replay of the 2nd half

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Re: Olympics

Postby Which Tyler » Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:01 am

Which Tyler wrote:
Which Tyler wrote:7s on the red button now

And now on BBC1 with a replay of the 2nd half

And back to red, FFS

Banquo
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Re: Olympics

Postby Banquo » Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:20 am

I know the BBC have been hampered by the broadcasting rights, but I haven't been impressed by the production at all- I guess its not helpful trying to do it from the UK. I'm also underwhelmed by some of the presenting- though 'new' experts like Lutalo Muhammad, Nile Wilson have been excellent.

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Re: Olympics

Postby Banquo » Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:21 am

Sevens going well. Footie equalised.

Novak out, that's a shock.

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Re: Olympics

Postby Which Tyler » Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:27 am

Well that was an awkward interview "We're known for being a bit soft, but we've risen up, and we're hard now, not soft anymore; even though we're probably smaller than any of the other nations"
Last edited by Which Tyler on Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

Banquo
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Re: Olympics

Postby Banquo » Fri Jul 30, 2021 12:35 pm

Blew the soccer unfortunately. 2-1 up with 2 minutes to go in normal time.

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Re: RE: Re: Olympics

Postby Donny osmond » Fri Jul 30, 2021 12:35 pm

Banquo wrote:Blew the soccer unfortunately. 2-1 up with 2 minutes to go in normal time.
Missed a penalty too. Shame.

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Re: RE: Re: Olympics

Postby Banquo » Fri Jul 30, 2021 12:38 pm

Donny osmond wrote:
Banquo wrote:Blew the soccer unfortunately. 2-1 up with 2 minutes to go in normal time.
Missed a penalty too. Shame.

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White got a hat-trick and still ended up losing- defence was a tad iffy.


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