America

paddy no 11
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Re: America

Postby paddy no 11 » Wed Apr 21, 2021 8:32 pm

Shoot once yeah, unload no

Digby
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Re: America

Postby Digby » Wed Apr 21, 2021 9:22 pm

Puja wrote:
Digby wrote:I'm happy to agree in many instances, such as the recent confusion between a taser and gun, highlight police can be far too quick for search for a violent solution. This latest shooting where someone was about to be assaulted is just a bad example of that, in this instance the officer can choose to protect the person attempting the stabbing or the person about to be the victim of the stabbing, both once such point of escalation has been reached isn't an option. And in that instance I think protecting the person about to become a victim is a reasonable call


Frankly, I'm not sure I trust any initial information put out by the police after a shooting. The "young adult who had a gun in his hand" just recently who turned out to be an unarmed 13 year old boy who was running away springs to mind. Plus someone just shared this - the original police version of events in George Floyd's death:



Puja


So watch the video. It's not especially ambiguous, unless it's horrifically edited. The young lass killed is leaping to try and stab someone, maybe there was a spare 0.1 of second or so to think of something else, but if this incident gets tagged on to what are some problem killings it gets much easier to dismiss concerns

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morepork
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Re: America

Postby morepork » Thu Apr 22, 2021 2:08 am

Digby wrote:
Puja wrote:
Digby wrote:I'm happy to agree in many instances, such as the recent confusion between a taser and gun, highlight police can be far too quick for search for a violent solution. This latest shooting where someone was about to be assaulted is just a bad example of that, in this instance the officer can choose to protect the person attempting the stabbing or the person about to be the victim of the stabbing, both once such point of escalation has been reached isn't an option. And in that instance I think protecting the person about to become a victim is a reasonable call


Frankly, I'm not sure I trust any initial information put out by the police after a shooting. The "young adult who had a gun in his hand" just recently who turned out to be an unarmed 13 year old boy who was running away springs to mind. Plus someone just shared this - the original police version of events in George Floyd's death:



Puja


So watch the video. It's not especially ambiguous, unless it's horrifically edited. The young lass killed is leaping to try and stab someone, maybe there was a spare 0.1 of second or so to think of something else, but if this incident gets tagged on to what are some problem killings it gets much easier to dismiss concerns



Its part of the same culture of wrong you fucking doughnut. Would two people be dead if the cop hadn't been there to kill one?

Digby
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Re: America

Postby Digby » Thu Apr 22, 2021 8:31 am

morepork wrote:
Digby wrote:
Puja wrote:
Frankly, I'm not sure I trust any initial information put out by the police after a shooting. The "young adult who had a gun in his hand" just recently who turned out to be an unarmed 13 year old boy who was running away springs to mind. Plus someone just shared this - the original police version of events in George Floyd's death:



Puja


So watch the video. It's not especially ambiguous, unless it's horrifically edited. The young lass killed is leaping to try and stab someone, maybe there was a spare 0.1 of second or so to think of something else, but if this incident gets tagged on to what are some problem killings it gets much easier to dismiss concerns



Its part of the same culture of wrong you fucking doughnut. Would two people be dead if the cop hadn't been there to kill one?



I've no idea if there'd have been another fatality absent of the police being there. But if you're running at someone to stab them and get shot by the police within inches of doing so then fair enough.

What's the thinking otherwise, just let the kids fight it out with knives, even if only one of the participants has a knife? This is heading down the defund the police line in an unhelpful fashion.

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Sandydragon
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Re: America

Postby Sandydragon » Thu Apr 22, 2021 6:25 pm

Agreed Digby. If every incident of a police related shooting is used to prove a point, there is a risk of losing focus if genuine use of force incidents are lumped in with the spurious.

Using a firearm to stop one person stabbing another is a reasonable use of force. If that’s what happened and there is proof of the police version of events then it’s no where near close to being an example of a racist police officer shooting a defenceless black person.

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Sandydragon
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Re: America

Postby Sandydragon » Thu Apr 22, 2021 6:34 pm

morepork wrote:Shoot first. Ask later. Brilliant. Why is it always the gun that is the response of choice in the first instance?


Social meja is alight with white culture war warriors claiming the justice system has bowed to a terrorist group, which they claim BLM is. When they say 'Muricans don't do irony, some of them do it less than others. Fuck me its pathetic how far the culture warriors will go out of their way to erect a flashing neon "I'm a racist bell end terrified of diversity and am struggling not to show it" sign on their front lawn.

And that is the root cause of the problem. There is a massive gun problem in the US and that is reflected in policing. The police response is aggressive and authoritarian in too many cases. I’ve seen for myself how officers speak to people and it’s a disgrace. But it’s routine. ThinknJudge Dredd but less futuristic.

The reaction often involves a firearm, regardless of the situation. I’ve done policing with a firearm and it’s difficult not to be very aware of the firearm you are carrying. I’ve only drawn my sidearm once in what anyone would recognise as a policing incident, and that was because of a side arm one of my team was carrying. But if you are in a cultural setting where you expect to encounter a gun toting maniac then you respond in a certain way. The cycle perpetuates itself. I know that the obvious comeback is that I’m blaming black people for police shoootng other black people, but that’s not the case. Big city American police officers expect to encounter illegal firearms and manage the incidents they come across accordingly and the incident escalated quickly from there. It’s that culture that’s causing the problem, allied to very loose controls over when force is permitted by the police.

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morepork
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Re: America

Postby morepork » Tue May 04, 2021 2:07 pm

The likes of Murdoch and Zuckerberg have created something out of control and abhorrent. It is possible to make a living off nothing but grievance and manufactured culture war with damn near impunity. Its just FUBAR. The shit has risen to the top and I'm not sure there is much we can do about it here with the constant threat of violence that underlies this shameless bullshit. This is a tweet from a member of congress today. I mean, what the fuck?


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Son of Mathonwy
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Re: America

Postby Son of Mathonwy » Tue May 04, 2021 5:40 pm

morepork wrote:The likes of Murdoch and Zuckerberg have created something out of control and abhorrent. It is possible to make a living off nothing but grievance and manufactured culture war with damn near impunity. Its just FUBAR. The shit has risen to the top and I'm not sure there is much we can do about it here with the constant threat of violence that underlies this shameless bullshit. This is a tweet from a member of congress today. I mean, what the fuck?


This belongs in Judge Dredd, not real life.

Digby
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Re: America

Postby Digby » Tue May 04, 2021 6:14 pm

The delightful chap behind that lethal personal defence item by runs a company called Q. The dog whistles as so often are subtle with this lot.

Digby
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Re: America

Postby Digby » Tue May 04, 2021 6:15 pm

I am of course assuming when Marjorie talks of giving away her honey badger it was the gun she's talking about, if I'm mistaken apologies of course to Marjorie

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morepork
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Re: America

Postby morepork » Tue May 04, 2021 6:40 pm

Digby wrote:I am of course assuming when Marjorie talks of giving away her honey badger it was the gun she's talking about, if I'm mistaken apologies of course to Marjorie



You are thinking of her Wide Bore Patriot Sausage Rat.

paddy no 11
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Re: America

Postby paddy no 11 » Tue May 04, 2021 7:49 pm

Was cueing in the social security office in san Francisco 20 years ago to get a number for work etc,

The security guard had an IQ of about 90 was armed with a hand cannon

A vietnamese lady and friends were cueing in front of us and one of them stepped over THE LINE....yer man looses his shit and starts shouting at her, she hasn't a word of English and doesn't know what he is saying, he puts his hand to the gun just as her friends pull her the 12 inches to the other side of the line and its back to normal - just a ridiculous situation

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morepork
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Re: America

Postby morepork » Tue May 04, 2021 7:57 pm

paddy no 11 wrote:Was cueing in the social security office in san Francisco 20 years ago to get a number for work etc,

The security guard had an IQ of about 90 was armed with a hand cannon

A vietnamese lady and friends were cueing in front of us and one of them stepped over THE LINE....yer man looses his shit and starts shouting at her, she hasn't a word of English and doesn't know what he is saying, he puts his hand to the gun just as her friends pull her the 12 inches to the other side of the line and its back to normal - just a ridiculous situation



Socialist.


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