America

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morepork
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Re: America

Postby morepork » Tue Nov 03, 2020 6:05 pm

Digby wrote:There's been precious little coverage too of just how crap their voting systems are, nor how few security features the electronic voting systems have. Seemingly the GOP has concluded if there was going to be any hacking they'd be the only players in town, 'cause I simply don't see why else it wouldn't be seriously looked at, and their conclusion they'd be the only cheats in town is of course in itself seriously stupid.



It has to change. This has been a real eye opener for me, and maybe I should have stayed in NZ as a labourer and not tried to play scientist. Fuck knows how I'd feel if I was stuck on the end of generations of this nonsense. It has to change.

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Re: America

Postby Digby » Tue Nov 03, 2020 6:11 pm

morepork wrote:
Digby wrote:There's been precious little coverage too of just how crap their voting systems are, nor how few security features the electronic voting systems have. Seemingly the GOP has concluded if there was going to be any hacking they'd be the only players in town, 'cause I simply don't see why else it wouldn't be seriously looked at, and their conclusion they'd be the only cheats in town is of course in itself seriously stupid.



It has to change. This has been a real eye opener for me, and maybe I should have stayed in NZ as a labourer and not tried to play scientist. Fuck knows how I'd feel if I was stuck on the end of generations of this nonsense. It has to change.


It's beyond stupid. Even if people want to vote in Trump they should be able to do so safely and with perhaps a 10-15 minute wait tops.

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Re: America

Postby Which Tyler » Sat Nov 21, 2020 10:20 pm

FB_IMG_1605995088167.jpg

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Re: America

Postby Son of Mathonwy » Sat Nov 21, 2020 11:06 pm

Which Tyler wrote:FB_IMG_1605995088167.jpg

Like

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Re: America

Postby Digby » Mon Nov 30, 2020 9:56 am

Religion defeats Covid19 with a 5-4 decision by the Supremes. I don't know if they were baiting Biden to add more justices as part of that, but it certainly will not lessen the dram of the Georgia election coming soon.

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Re: America

Postby morepork » Mon Nov 30, 2020 6:53 pm

Digby wrote:Religion defeats Covid19 with a 5-4 decision by the Supremes. I don't know if they were baiting Biden to add more justices as part of that, but it certainly will not lessen the dram of the Georgia election coming soon.



You have to fear for the objectivity of the highest court in the land if it is so easily rolled over by the remedial mewlings of the omniscient space zombie fan club in the face of such hard data.

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Re: America

Postby Digby » Tue Dec 01, 2020 1:01 am

morepork wrote:
Digby wrote:Religion defeats Covid19 with a 5-4 decision by the Supremes. I don't know if they were baiting Biden to add more justices as part of that, but it certainly will not lessen the dram of the Georgia election coming soon.



You have to fear for the objectivity of the highest court in the land if it is so easily rolled over by the remedial mewlings of the omniscient space zombie fan club in the face of such hard data.



What you could say, yet again is it's a barking mad system. We'd probably have gotten a different 5-4 ruling were RBG still going at it, and it's wrong that a one person swing in a role that's unelected has such an impact. Not that I want to see the judges elected, any elections for judges seems madness to me, but rather the politicians should be driving this process and not the courts. The politicians are awful, but that's a different thing.

Though for my part I'd agree the decision is just flat out wrong, and it'd have worried me had sanity only crept over the line 5-4, this really should be a 9-0 why is this crap even being brought before us ruling.

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Re: America

Postby Son of Mathonwy » Tue Dec 01, 2020 11:28 am

Digby wrote:Religion defeats Covid19 with a 5-4 decision by the Supremes. I don't know if they were baiting Biden to add more justices as part of that, but it certainly will not lessen the dram of the Georgia election coming soon.

What did they vote on?

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Re: America

Postby Which Tyler » Tue Dec 01, 2020 2:00 pm

WTAF?
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/11/30/poli ... index.html

An attorney for the Trump campaign on Monday issued a call for violence against Chris Krebs, a former cybersecurity official who was unceremoniously ousted from his post by President Donald Trump after he rejected the President's unfounded claims of widespread voter fraud.
Joe diGenova, an attorney for Trump's campaign, said during an appearance on "The Howie Carr Show": "Anybody who thinks the election went well, like that idiot Krebs who used to be the head of cybersecurity. That guy is a class A moron. He should be drawn and quartered. Taken out at dawn and shot."

...

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Re: America

Postby Digby » Tue Dec 01, 2020 2:14 pm

Son of Mathonwy wrote:
Digby wrote:Religion defeats Covid19 with a 5-4 decision by the Supremes. I don't know if they were baiting Biden to add more justices as part of that, but it certainly will not lessen the dram of the Georgia election coming soon.

What did they vote on?


Whether a State, in this case NY, had the right to infringe on 1st amendment right to assemble for religious purposes. And the Supremes decided a global pandemic wasn't sufficient reason to restrict the right to assemble in the worship of sky wizards


Edit- I now realise my error and should have referred to either the Districct or Distrcoit of NY. (Both these spelling errors appear straight off the bat in recent pleadings submitted by the brilliantly crazy Sidney Powell on behalf of Trump even after being severed by Team Trump)

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Re: America

Postby gransoporro » Tue Dec 01, 2020 10:36 pm

Digby, that was a cheap shot at a former member of the Trump legal team.

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Re: America

Postby Digby » Tue Dec 01, 2020 11:13 pm

I shall try to be more discroit in future

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Re: America

Postby Galfon » Thu Jan 07, 2021 5:03 pm

Musk now worth $190 Bn. on the back of Tesla.., making him Rich#1.

'"About half my money is intended to help problems on Earth, and half to help establish a self-sustaining city on Mars to ensure continuation of life (of all species) in case Earth gets hit by a meteor like the dinosaurs or WW3 happens and we destroy ourselves,"


..so we can destroy ourselves all over again..masochist, but nice thought sir.

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Re: America

Postby Digby » Thu Jan 07, 2021 8:41 pm

The other half is going up his nose

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Re: America

Postby Puja » Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:42 pm

Galfon wrote:Musk now worth $190 Bn. on the back of Tesla.., making him Rich#1.

'"About half my money is intended to help problems on Earth, and half to help establish a self-sustaining city on Mars to ensure continuation of life (of all species) in case Earth gets hit by a meteor like the dinosaurs or WW3 happens and we destroy ourselves,"


..so we can destroy ourselves all over again..masochist, but nice thought sir.


To be honest, while Musk is a phenomenal toolbag, his ego is probably the only hope humanity has of progressing into space. No government has anywhere near the vision or will to put the necessary money and effort into it.

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Re: America

Postby Digby » Fri Jan 08, 2021 12:46 am

Puja wrote:
Galfon wrote:Musk now worth $190 Bn. on the back of Tesla.., making him Rich#1.

'"About half my money is intended to help problems on Earth, and half to help establish a self-sustaining city on Mars to ensure continuation of life (of all species) in case Earth gets hit by a meteor like the dinosaurs or WW3 happens and we destroy ourselves,"


..so we can destroy ourselves all over again..masochist, but nice thought sir.


To be honest, while Musk is a phenomenal toolbag, his ego is probably the only hope humanity has of progressing into space. No government has anywhere near the vision or will to put the necessary money and effort into it.

Puja



I'm pretty sure government spending will be well ahead of Musk's. Which isn't to say Musk and various other private investments will not pay significant dividends when it comes to space exploration.

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Re: America

Postby Puja » Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:44 am

Digby wrote:
Puja wrote:
Galfon wrote:Musk now worth $190 Bn. on the back of Tesla.., making him Rich#1.

'"About half my money is intended to help problems on Earth, and half to help establish a self-sustaining city on Mars to ensure continuation of life (of all species) in case Earth gets hit by a meteor like the dinosaurs or WW3 happens and we destroy ourselves,"


..so we can destroy ourselves all over again..masochist, but nice thought sir.


To be honest, while Musk is a phenomenal toolbag, his ego is probably the only hope humanity has of progressing into space. No government has anywhere near the vision or will to put the necessary money and effort into it.

Puja



I'm pretty sure government spending will be well ahead of Musk's. Which isn't to say Musk and various other private investments will not pay significant dividends when it comes to space exploration.


On setting up a colony outside of Earth? Governments won't even fund owning their own space shuttle anymore!

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Re: America

Postby Digby » Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:05 am

Puja wrote:
Digby wrote:
Puja wrote:
To be honest, while Musk is a phenomenal toolbag, his ego is probably the only hope humanity has of progressing into space. No government has anywhere near the vision or will to put the necessary money and effort into it.

Puja



I'm pretty sure government spending will be well ahead of Musk's. Which isn't to say Musk and various other private investments will not pay significant dividends when it comes to space exploration.


On setting up a colony outside of Earth? Governments won't even fund owning their own space shuttle anymore!

Puja


Have you noted the spend on the various space agencies per annum? It's not nothing Musk can come in and add to that, but he is adding to that and working alongside even if we allow not all the spend on space agencies (and now space forces) is dedicated to Mars, or space stations as we see with Bezos.

But there's no way even for all their wealth Musk and Bezos can match spending by nation states over time, it's just an entirely different beast. And that before Bezos and Musk would struggle to put all their wealth into such endeavour

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Re: America

Postby Stom » Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:22 am

Digby wrote:
Puja wrote:
Digby wrote:

I'm pretty sure government spending will be well ahead of Musk's. Which isn't to say Musk and various other private investments will not pay significant dividends when it comes to space exploration.


On setting up a colony outside of Earth? Governments won't even fund owning their own space shuttle anymore!

Puja


Have you noted the spend on the various space agencies per annum? It's not nothing Musk can come in and add to that, but he is adding to that and working alongside even if we allow not all the spend on space agencies (and now space forces) is dedicated to Mars, or space stations as we see with Bezos.

But there's no way even for all their wealth Musk and Bezos can match spending by nation states over time, it's just an entirely different beast. And that before Bezos and Musk would struggle to put all their wealth into such endeavour


But it's not about money...

As shown by, for instance, the solar roofs, Musk is extremely focused and able to produce results at a fraction of the cost of his competitors. He tends to cause issues with that focus and drive to get it to market quickly, but there's no doubting he's able to produce cost and time efficient results.

The tech behind those solar roofing panels is so stupidly obvious, though, it just takes someone outside of the existing industry to take a chance and try to turn it into something that can seriously work. Those panels are incredible.

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Re: America

Postby Puja » Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:36 am

Stom wrote:
Digby wrote:
Puja wrote:
On setting up a colony outside of Earth? Governments won't even fund owning their own space shuttle anymore!

Puja


Have you noted the spend on the various space agencies per annum? It's not nothing Musk can come in and add to that, but he is adding to that and working alongside even if we allow not all the spend on space agencies (and now space forces) is dedicated to Mars, or space stations as we see with Bezos.

But there's no way even for all their wealth Musk and Bezos can match spending by nation states over time, it's just an entirely different beast. And that before Bezos and Musk would struggle to put all their wealth into such endeavour


But it's not about money...

As shown by, for instance, the solar roofs, Musk is extremely focused and able to produce results at a fraction of the cost of his competitors. He tends to cause issues with that focus and drive to get it to market quickly, but there's no doubting he's able to produce cost and time efficient results.

The tech behind those solar roofing panels is so stupidly obvious, though, it just takes someone outside of the existing industry to take a chance and try to turn it into something that can seriously work. Those panels are incredible.


Not to mention that a good chunk of NASA's budget is now going on paying SpaceX to provide services for them.

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Re: America

Postby Digby » Fri Jan 08, 2021 2:17 pm

Stom wrote:
Digby wrote:
Puja wrote:
On setting up a colony outside of Earth? Governments won't even fund owning their own space shuttle anymore!

Puja


Have you noted the spend on the various space agencies per annum? It's not nothing Musk can come in and add to that, but he is adding to that and working alongside even if we allow not all the spend on space agencies (and now space forces) is dedicated to Mars, or space stations as we see with Bezos.

But there's no way even for all their wealth Musk and Bezos can match spending by nation states over time, it's just an entirely different beast. And that before Bezos and Musk would struggle to put all their wealth into such endeavour


But it's not about money...

As shown by, for instance, the solar roofs, Musk is extremely focused and able to produce results at a fraction of the cost of his competitors. He tends to cause issues with that focus and drive to get it to market quickly, but there's no doubting he's able to produce cost and time efficient results.

The tech behind those solar roofing panels is so stupidly obvious, though, it just takes someone outside of the existing industry to take a chance and try to turn it into something that can seriously work. Those panels are incredible.



We supplied some tech into NASA a few years back, well actually the UK Space Agency but on a combined initiative, it's not my experience these people aren't focused. And none of them came across as being as drugged up as Musk so I'd venture they were actually more focussed. Which isn't to say people looking afresh at a situation can't spot a better way of doing something, but that holds for things Musk is doing as well as Musk looking at others.

And it is somewhat about the money, doing stuff in space is very expensive. Until the pandemic we were doing quite a lot of work with a particular group of mathematicians worked through a combined group out of a well known Uni in the USA and being paid for largely by a well known delivery company and web provider (and others) around quantum computing but a few bits on the side too, and when the topic formally or otherwise went across to some of the work and differences in work for what it was going to take to run ops out of say a space station or even a moon base, well there was something of a gulf between that and Terran operations. At some point I'd like to get back to this as despite it being by far the worst paid work of the week it was if not quite great fun then certainly very interesting, other than having 5-10 mathematicians continually mock my sorry level of mathematics, especially the one who despite thinking he was so good with numbers figured on the back of Brexit that Trump would have the USA additionally invest $250 billion into the UK economy per annum

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Re: America

Postby Puja » Fri Jan 08, 2021 3:35 pm

Digby wrote:
Stom wrote:
Digby wrote:
Have you noted the spend on the various space agencies per annum? It's not nothing Musk can come in and add to that, but he is adding to that and working alongside even if we allow not all the spend on space agencies (and now space forces) is dedicated to Mars, or space stations as we see with Bezos.

But there's no way even for all their wealth Musk and Bezos can match spending by nation states over time, it's just an entirely different beast. And that before Bezos and Musk would struggle to put all their wealth into such endeavour


But it's not about money...

As shown by, for instance, the solar roofs, Musk is extremely focused and able to produce results at a fraction of the cost of his competitors. He tends to cause issues with that focus and drive to get it to market quickly, but there's no doubting he's able to produce cost and time efficient results.

The tech behind those solar roofing panels is so stupidly obvious, though, it just takes someone outside of the existing industry to take a chance and try to turn it into something that can seriously work. Those panels are incredible.



We supplied some tech into NASA a few years back, well actually the UK Space Agency but on a combined initiative, it's not my experience these people aren't focused. And none of them came across as being as drugged up as Musk so I'd venture they were actually more focussed. Which isn't to say people looking afresh at a situation can't spot a better way of doing something, but that holds for things Musk is doing as well as Musk looking at others.

And it is somewhat about the money, doing stuff in space is very expensive. Until the pandemic we were doing quite a lot of work with a particular group of mathematicians worked through a combined group out of a well known Uni in the USA and being paid for largely by a well known delivery company and web provider (and others) around quantum computing but a few bits on the side too, and when the topic formally or otherwise went across to some of the work and differences in work for what it was going to take to run ops out of say a space station or even a moon base, well there was something of a gulf between that and Terran operations. At some point I'd like to get back to this as despite it being by far the worst paid work of the week it was if not quite great fun then certainly very interesting, other than having 5-10 mathematicians continually mock my sorry level of mathematics, especially the one who despite thinking he was so good with numbers figured on the back of Brexit that Trump would have the USA additionally invest $250 billion into the UK economy per annum


I think we're using the word focussed in different ways here. In terms of being able to focus on work, you're absolutely right. We're talking about what area their work is focussing on - Musk's space agency has one goal, which is setting up an extra-Earth colony (and earning funds that go towards that goal). He doesn't care about the makeup of comets, researching Jupiter, robotic exploration, etc. So while his budget in total may be lower, his budget specifically for getting humans into space if higher, because it's focussed.

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Re: America

Postby morepork » Fri Jan 08, 2021 6:40 pm

This is the guy that has downplayed the gravity of COVID, rubbished diagnostics despite not knowing what he was talking about, and terminated workers who stayed home when colleagues tested positive?

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Re: America

Postby Puja » Fri Jan 08, 2021 7:15 pm

morepork wrote:This is the guy that has downplayed the gravity of COVID, rubbished diagnostics despite not knowing what he was talking about, and terminated workers who stayed home when colleagues tested positive?


This conversation did start off with, "I know he's a colossal douchecanoe, but..."

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Re: America

Postby Digby » Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:04 pm

Puja wrote:
Digby wrote:
Stom wrote:
But it's not about money...

As shown by, for instance, the solar roofs, Musk is extremely focused and able to produce results at a fraction of the cost of his competitors. He tends to cause issues with that focus and drive to get it to market quickly, but there's no doubting he's able to produce cost and time efficient results.

The tech behind those solar roofing panels is so stupidly obvious, though, it just takes someone outside of the existing industry to take a chance and try to turn it into something that can seriously work. Those panels are incredible.



We supplied some tech into NASA a few years back, well actually the UK Space Agency but on a combined initiative, it's not my experience these people aren't focused. And none of them came across as being as drugged up as Musk so I'd venture they were actually more focussed. Which isn't to say people looking afresh at a situation can't spot a better way of doing something, but that holds for things Musk is doing as well as Musk looking at others.

And it is somewhat about the money, doing stuff in space is very expensive. Until the pandemic we were doing quite a lot of work with a particular group of mathematicians worked through a combined group out of a well known Uni in the USA and being paid for largely by a well known delivery company and web provider (and others) around quantum computing but a few bits on the side too, and when the topic formally or otherwise went across to some of the work and differences in work for what it was going to take to run ops out of say a space station or even a moon base, well there was something of a gulf between that and Terran operations. At some point I'd like to get back to this as despite it being by far the worst paid work of the week it was if not quite great fun then certainly very interesting, other than having 5-10 mathematicians continually mock my sorry level of mathematics, especially the one who despite thinking he was so good with numbers figured on the back of Brexit that Trump would have the USA additionally invest $250 billion into the UK economy per annum


I think we're using the word focussed in different ways here. In terms of being able to focus on work, you're absolutely right. We're talking about what area their work is focussing on - Musk's space agency has one goal, which is setting up an extra-Earth colony (and earning funds that go towards that goal). He doesn't care about the makeup of comets, researching Jupiter, robotic exploration, etc. So while his budget in total may be lower, his budget specifically for getting humans into space if higher, because it's focussed.

Puja


But he's still piggybacking a lot of the existing knowledge/resources in his aim, it wouldn't be possible without all that ancillary work having been and being done. And he's still tinkering on the margins in many ways, even if in a very public fashion, and even if it's mostly very welcome from the various space agencies (not sure about the likes of Russia and China in saying that)

And still, whilst I don't know also how much the manned mission to Mars and the possible establishment of colonies is being budgeted for by just NASA I'm confident it'll be more than Musk is going to spend. Understandable when a smallish chunk of their budget would wipe out Musk in just a few years, again assuming Musk even could convert his wealth to cash


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