EPS Watch / Player Form Thread

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FKAS
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Re: EPS Watch / Player Form Thread

Postby FKAS » Tue May 04, 2021 2:00 pm

Danno wrote:
FKAS wrote:
Danno wrote:Anyone getting excited about seeing Randall, Mitchell or A.N.other in the summer: Youngs has ruled himself out of the Lions.


Something England needed to do irrelevant of whether Youngs and Robson were available or not. Got to start bringing through the young scrum half stock. Same for other positions as well.


I'm not getting my hopes up is all :|


Yes, it's clear to everyone else that England need to use this summer to build up depth and try new players. Let's see if Eddie has cottoned on.

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Re: EPS Watch / Player Form Thread

Postby Puja » Tue May 04, 2021 2:01 pm

FKAS wrote:
Puja wrote:
Digby wrote:Shame he had no outside break


Can't work out if that's sarcastic or not. He did have an outside break that set up a try.

Puja




2.35ish on the highlights there. Just does the one player and then requires another two to drag him down inches short.

I think his running style with the long stride makes him look likes not going that quick but actually he's covering the ground at a decent rate.


That actually wasn't even the one I was thinking of! I was thinking of this one that led to the first try - more of a classic outside break.



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Re: EPS Watch / Player Form Thread

Postby Tigersman » Tue May 04, 2021 2:32 pm

I just struggle to see a better possible play rather than the 5M scrum.

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Re: EPS Watch / Player Form Thread

Postby Digby » Tue May 04, 2021 3:16 pm

If you're accepting the man on man position. I think there's a chance for an outside break there to maybe get a 2 on 1, the kick is fine, it's totally functional bar the 9 attempting to give away a penalty for chasing ahead of the kick, it's just as before an odd play to extol, essentially it's a look nothing got fecked up moment, other than the 9 being what might be called offside, luckily as so often offside isn't a thing

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Re: EPS Watch / Player Form Thread

Postby Puja » Tue May 04, 2021 3:24 pm

Digby wrote:If you're accepting the man on man position. I think there's a chance for an outside break there to maybe get a 2 on 1, the kick is fine, it's totally functional bar the 9 attempting to give away a penalty for chasing ahead of the kick, it's just as before an odd play to extol, essentially it's a look nothing got fecked up moment, other than the 9 being what might be called offside, luckily as so often offside isn't a thing


Hmm. I sort of see your point that a successful outside break would be ideal, but the Ulster player has read the pull-back ball and is charging up on Steward before he's even received it, so I think he'd have to be a teleporter to go around him in that position. He has two steps before getting hit and, while an argument could be made that he could have drifted on the pass, I think he'd have to be Jonny May levels of pace to stand a hope of getting through there, and even then it'd be close.

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Re: EPS Watch / Player Form Thread

Postby Digby » Tue May 04, 2021 3:38 pm

Steward needs to be drifting earlier, have better footwork, and perhaps the option to gas it on the outside which he simply might not have the acceleration for. And the blocking needs to be better, and the wide players are really wide when maybe you don't quite want that in that setup. The setup as is does promote the kick as an option. And I'm fine with all of that, most plays don't break the line and/or create a chance, just if looking at it I think there's a chance something better could have happened, and thus I wouldn't say hey look at how well this act of 2nd playmaking goes, it's fine, it's functional, it's a decent outcome, boring, next

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Re: EPS Watch / Player Form Thread

Postby Puja » Tue May 04, 2021 4:32 pm

Digby wrote:Steward needs to be drifting earlier, have better footwork, and perhaps the option to gas it on the outside which he simply might not have the acceleration for. And the blocking needs to be better, and the wide players are really wide when maybe you don't quite want that in that setup. The setup as is does promote the kick as an option. And I'm fine with all of that, most plays don't break the line and/or create a chance, just if looking at it I think there's a chance something better could have happened, and thus I wouldn't say hey look at how well this act of 2nd playmaking goes, it's fine, it's functional, it's a decent outcome, boring, next


I think you're being incredibly harsh. It's a good read by the defence and Steward adapts quickly under high pressure to put through a phenomenally weighted kick rather than trying to force a pass that's not on or getting caught behind the gainline. He literally has two steps before the defender is on him.

Yes, a clean break to make a 3-on-2 would've been a better result, but it seems churlish to look at a player reacting well to a good bit of rush defence to gain 30m and the ball back, and say, "Tsch, wasn't a try though, was it?"

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Re: EPS Watch / Player Form Thread

Postby Digby » Tue May 04, 2021 5:40 pm

I'm not saying it should have been a try, merely there was a chance, and only a chance, to develop an overlap. Given overlap wasn't developed I'm not going to look at that and think it was a nice little bit of play. I'm also not going to slate it because it was okay, nothing especially wrong with it.

So it's only being harsh to the claim it's a good piece of play, if Felix doesn't reach somewhat in making that claim there's nowt to be harsh about.

Given how wide the outside men are and that he's last man unless he's into a hole or there's a chance of getting arms through the tackle, and he has neither of those to any positive degree, the kick is really all he has. So I suppose yes he does well not to get caught with the ball behind the gain line, but the avoidance of being a little bit crap isn't the same as that being something to talk up.

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Re: EPS Watch / Player Form Thread

Postby morepork » Tue May 04, 2021 5:54 pm

Digby wrote:I'm not saying it should have been a try, merely there was a chance, and only a chance, to develop an overlap. Given overlap wasn't developed I'm not going to look at that and think it was a nice little bit of play. I'm also not going to slate it because it was okay, nothing especially wrong with it.

So it's only being harsh to the claim it's a good piece of play, if Felix doesn't reach somewhat in making that claim there's nowt to be harsh about.

Given how wide the outside men are and that he's last man unless he's into a hole or there's a chance of getting arms through the tackle, and he has neither of those to any positive degree, the kick is really all he has. So I suppose yes he does well not to get caught with the ball behind the gain line, but the avoidance of being a little bit crap isn't the same as that being something to talk up.



Are you sure you're English? Why run when you can chip?

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Re: EPS Watch / Player Form Thread

Postby Digby » Tue May 04, 2021 5:58 pm

morepork wrote:
Digby wrote:I'm not saying it should have been a try, merely there was a chance, and only a chance, to develop an overlap. Given overlap wasn't developed I'm not going to look at that and think it was a nice little bit of play. I'm also not going to slate it because it was okay, nothing especially wrong with it.

So it's only being harsh to the claim it's a good piece of play, if Felix doesn't reach somewhat in making that claim there's nowt to be harsh about.

Given how wide the outside men are and that he's last man unless he's into a hole or there's a chance of getting arms through the tackle, and he has neither of those to any positive degree, the kick is really all he has. So I suppose yes he does well not to get caught with the ball behind the gain line, but the avoidance of being a little bit crap isn't the same as that being something to talk up.



Are you sure you're English? Why run when you can chip?


is the general sense of miserableness not pervasive enough in my commentary? that I would suggest is harsh!

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Re: EPS Watch / Player Form Thread

Postby FKAS » Tue May 04, 2021 8:11 pm

Digby wrote:I'm not saying it should have been a try, merely there was a chance, and only a chance, to develop an overlap. Given overlap wasn't developed I'm not going to look at that and think it was a nice little bit of play. I'm also not going to slate it because it was okay, nothing especially wrong with it.

So it's only being harsh to the claim it's a good piece of play, if Felix doesn't reach somewhat in making that claim there's nowt to be harsh about.

Given how wide the outside men are and that he's last man unless he's into a hole or there's a chance of getting arms through the tackle, and he has neither of those to any positive degree, the kick is really all he has. So I suppose yes he does well not to get caught with the ball behind the gain line, but the avoidance of being a little bit crap isn't the same as that being something to talk up.


What you want is young players to react under pressure and review what's in front of them. Stepping on the outside is a high risk move, your outside backs are moving at pace so are likely to overrun you so the onus is on that outside break to be high quality and bring those outside players jamming on the brakes back into the game. High risk, high reward because potential try. Most likely outcome there though is being tackled behind the gain line and turned over. For a side struggling to stay in touch at that point in the game that isn't a good outcome.

Instead he reads the percentages, pass is on but the players are numbered up and it's not a short pass under pressure. The grubber through is the low risk option, no hang time or chance of calling a mark. The execution of the low risk option to put it right into the corner and leave the fullback with only three miserable options to choose from (desperately try and kick, walk it into touch or try and run it from behind your try line) is excellent. Young player under pressure makes correct decision and executes superbly. Not the clip I'd use to big up someone's attacking play but it does again show the old head on young shoulders of Steward. If you're looking for a secondary playmaker in the backline that's the decision making you are looking for. What you want from any playmaker is for them to read the game, make the right choice and have the skill to pull it off that's what he does.

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Re: EPS Watch / Player Form Thread

Postby Timbo » Sat May 08, 2021 5:40 pm

Jack Nowell can’t catch a break at the moment. Looked like a bit of a nasty knee or ankle injury today.

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Re: EPS Watch / Player Form Thread

Postby Puja » Mon May 10, 2021 12:07 am

Anyone else slightly worried that Eddie will recall Danny Care for the summer tour rather than pick a young 9? It seems like a very Eddie move to abruptly decide that Care is back in favour just so he doesn't have to do what we want.

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Re: EPS Watch / Player Form Thread

Postby Dan. Dan. Dan. » Mon May 10, 2021 6:18 am

I would hope even Danny Care would see how mad that would be and turn it down!

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Re: EPS Watch / Player Form Thread

Postby Dan. Dan. Dan. » Mon May 10, 2021 6:19 am

But you're not wrong about it being possible...

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Re: EPS Watch / Player Form Thread

Postby Beasties » Mon May 10, 2021 7:20 am

Maybe Mike Beown was worried that Eddie would do an Eddie at 15 as well and removed himself from selection?

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Re: EPS Watch / Player Form Thread

Postby Peej » Mon May 10, 2021 8:26 am

Maybe Eddie had told him he fancied him on the wing again?

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Re: EPS Watch / Player Form Thread

Postby FKAS » Mon May 10, 2021 8:34 am

Puja wrote:Anyone else slightly worried that Eddie will recall Danny Care for the summer tour rather than pick a young 9? It seems like a very Eddie move to abruptly decide that Care is back in favour just so he doesn't have to do what we want.

Puja


No, I'm expecting him to go full Eddie and select Spencer and Robson and then discard both for the Autumn Internationals and select a youngster to sit on the bench whilst Ben Youngs plays at least 75 minutes of every game.

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Re: EPS Watch / Player Form Thread

Postby Banquo » Mon May 10, 2021 11:27 am

Timbo wrote:Jack Nowell can’t catch a break at the moment. Looked like a bit of a nasty knee or ankle injury today.

story of his career tbh. Have to admire his resilience, but he rarely puts in more than 2 games back to back.

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Re: EPS Watch / Player Form Thread

Postby Scrumhead » Mon May 10, 2021 11:58 am

Dan. Dan. Dan. wrote:I would hope even Danny Care would see how mad that would be and turn it down!


Yeah - I think he would. Maybe if we were closer to a RWC, he might be tempted but I strongly suspect that coming back for a couple of token caps would be a ‘thanks, but no thanks’.

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Re: EPS Watch / Player Form Thread

Postby francoisfou » Tue May 11, 2021 1:41 pm

The calls for Marcus Smith to be capped are justified, but I wonder if he makes the team for the Autumn Tests if he’ll be obliged to have Owen Farrell at inside centre?

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Re: EPS Watch / Player Form Thread

Postby Mikey Brown » Tue May 11, 2021 3:17 pm

I wouldn't say I'm concerned about whether he can immediately displace Ford or how well he partners with Farrell at this point, I'm just so keen to see him in an England shirt and if he can control a game in a completely different setup. There's plenty of time for him.

Ford and Farrell have both played like drones for much of the last year but I don't think that's much to do with their preferred approach to the game, rather than game plan. Whether Faz is at 12 or not Smith would have to play Jones's game if he were picked in the Autumn.

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Re: EPS Watch / Player Form Thread

Postby Digby » Tue May 11, 2021 5:54 pm

francoisfou wrote:The calls for Marcus Smith to be capped are justified, but I wonder if he makes the team for the Autumn Tests if he’ll be obliged to have Owen Farrell at inside centre?


See I watched the Wasps game t'other day, and in the opening minute he kicked off the match going too long with a restart allowing Wasps into the game under insufficient pressure, but Wasps gave the ball back, and then presented with another chance he threw an intercept for no particular reason. And that's just minute 1

I don't know any serious coach who isn't going to want to see a player in the 10 shirt take control of the game and the emotion of the game. Now maybe he does do that most of the time, I only know whenever I watch him it seems all too easy to dismiss his claims. And then people get far too excited about the stuff that does look good on TV, there's some justification for it because he is a talent, but he does seem to miss out on some important detail in his game.

Basically were the calls for his selection justified I don't think I should be watching him and finding it so easy to disregard his clam.

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Re: EPS Watch / Player Form Thread

Postby Mellsblue » Tue May 11, 2021 6:12 pm

Digby wrote:
francoisfou wrote:The calls for Marcus Smith to be capped are justified, but I wonder if he makes the team for the Autumn Tests if he’ll be obliged to have Owen Farrell at inside centre?


See I watched the Wasps game t'other day, and in the opening minute he kicked off the match going too long with a restart allowing Wasps into the game under insufficient pressure, but Wasps gave the ball back, and then presented with another chance he threw an intercept for no particular reason. And that's just minute 1

I don't know any serious coach who isn't going to want to see a player in the 10 shirt take control of the game and the emotion of the game. Now maybe he does do that most of the time, I only know whenever I watch him it seems all too easy to dismiss his claims. And then people get far too excited about the stuff that does look good on TV, there's some justification for it because he is a talent, but he does seem to miss out on some important detail in his game.

Basically were the calls for his selection justified I don't think I should be watching him and finding it so easy to disregard his clam.

Sounds fishy to me.

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Re: EPS Watch / Player Form Thread

Postby Dan. Dan. Dan. » Tue May 11, 2021 6:51 pm

Digby wrote:
francoisfou wrote:The calls for Marcus Smith to be capped are justified, but I wonder if he makes the team for the Autumn Tests if he’ll be obliged to have Owen Farrell at inside centre?


See I watched the Wasps game t'other day, and in the opening minute he kicked off the match going too long with a restart allowing Wasps into the game under insufficient pressure, but Wasps gave the ball back, and then presented with another chance he threw an intercept for no particular reason. And that's just minute 1

I don't know any serious coach who isn't going to want to see a player in the 10 shirt take control of the game and the emotion of the game. Now maybe he does do that most of the time, I only know whenever I watch him it seems all too easy to dismiss his claims. And then people get far too excited about the stuff that does look good on TV, there's some justification for it because he is a talent, but he does seem to miss out on some important detail in his game.

Basically were the calls for his selection justified I don't think I should be watching him and finding it so easy to disregard his clam.


Whilst I know what you mean, and to some extent agree. Quins, especially since Gustard pissed off, have been playing a very loose game generally and I think it's a little unfair to say Smith doesn't play a controlled game when the whole point is to play fast and loose.
Smith was actually tempering the flair a lot under Gustard and was still playing pretty well in a team that wasn't, so I think he can change his game and hopefully can fit nicely into the Ford role (in no way should he replace him!).


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