South Africa tour

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Son of Mathonwy
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South Africa tour

Postby Son of Mathonwy » Wed May 18, 2022 2:11 pm

Squad for the tour:

Forwards: Rhys Carre, Wyn Jones, Gareth Thomas, Ryan Elias, Dewi Lake, Sam Parry, Leon Brown, Tomas Francis, Dillon Lewis, Adam Beard, Will Rowlands, Alun Wyn Jones, Ben Carter, Dan Lydiate, Josh Navidi, James Ratti, Taulupe Faletau, Taine Basham, Tommy Reffell.

Backs: Gareth Davies, Kieran Hardy, Tomos Williams, Dan Biggar (capt), Gareth Anscombe, Rhys Patchell, George North, Nick Tompkins, Owen Watkin, Johnny Williams, Josh Adams, Alex Cuthbert, Louis Rees-Zammit, Liam Williams.

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Re: South Africa tour

Postby Son of Mathonwy » Wed May 18, 2022 3:18 pm

Overall it's a sensible squad. Some thoughts:

I'd take Seb Davies rather than AWJ. We know what AWJ can do and I'd like to give him more time to get back to speed before international tests.

Wish there was an obvious better option for back up 6 than Lydiate. I assume Christ is still out. Does Ratti ever play 6?

Tough on Jac Morgan to miss out but we can't really bring three 7s and Reffell needs a chance (though I've yet to see him play).

Morgan Morris would have been my back up 8 instead of Ratti, although I can see Ratti has potential. Morris deserves a chance soon.

Webb is invisible.

I'd rather not have Biggar as first choice 10 but great to see Patchell included. Hopefully both Anscombe and Patchell get some good game time.

Good to see North and Johnny Williams back. Watkin probably is the sensible 4th choice centre but I don't expect anything special from him - he's really just injury cover IMO.

Although I was pleasantly surprised by Cuthbert in the 6N, I still would prefer to see Giles or Conbeer touring instead.

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Re: South Africa tour

Postby Sandydragon » Thu May 19, 2022 1:51 pm

Privacy has apparently said a few players are in last chance saloon following the Italy debacle. But then apparently we are going to be playing our strongest team from now to the RWC, so who knows what that actually means. Its a strong squad but I'm not hopeful of anything approaching success.

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Re: South Africa tour

Postby Son of Mathonwy » Thu May 19, 2022 10:23 pm

Actually I'm forgetting Botham - he would have been in my squad instead of Lydiate.

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Re: South Africa tour

Postby Sandydragon » Fri May 20, 2022 1:41 pm

Lydiate is an interesting pick. He is a big physical blindside which is no bad thing against the Bokke; but are we trying to play the Bokke at their own game or up the pace?

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Re: South Africa tour

Postby Son of Mathonwy » Fri May 20, 2022 4:16 pm

Sandydragon wrote:Lydiate is an interesting pick. He is a big physical blindside which is no bad thing against the Bokke; but are we trying to play the Bokke at their own game or up the pace?

Lydiate may well do a good job there (that's if he get much game time with Navidi fit), but he doesn't do dynamic ball carrying. It's not the game plan I'd like to see. In fact it's classic Gatball.

I don't know, maybe pragmatism is best when going to SA. We shall see (as in, we shall see what Pivac's game plan is, and what the result is).

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Re: South Africa tour

Postby Wallpaperman » Sun May 22, 2022 12:41 pm

Probably about as good as we’ve got at present, subject to one or two injuries. Keeping Tomas Francis fit, and getting as much time on the pitch with him as possible is going to be crucial. South Africa bringing Kitshoff et al on as substitutes will mean a severe examination for the replacement Welsh front row (probably penalties conceded, especially if it’s Lewis). Looking at the Ospreys, without doubt the best Welsh pack, coming off second best at home to the Bulls on Friday is a worry. I think that Wales will have to pick AWJ or Beard alongside Rowlands who looks like the only second row that we have who could go toe to toe with them, since Jake Ball went to Japan.

Agree with the mixed messages with Pivac re last chance saloons, etc.but continuing to pick the same players. He also can’t possibly think that Lydiate will be in the World Cup squad, although he could be a good fit for this tour.

I went to Ospreys v Scarlets a few weeks ago, and thought Conbeer was excellent, and he is very unlucky not to go, likewise Jac Morgan. I like Michael Collins more each time I see him, he has been very good at full back. He looked a bit ropey in defence around Christmas but he seems to have sorted this, and his decision making and distribution are very good. He looks to lack a bit of pace but I think he would have been worth a gamble on this trip.

Apparently Patchell picked up another knock yesterday, hope he is fit to go. Anscombe looks to be getting back to his pre injury standards, just not sure about his pace yet. A summer off might not have been the worst thing for him.

I know that North is just coming back, but his defence was exposed on Friday. Not a good sign where your opposite number (aged 34) scores 3 tries and gives a scoring pass for another after making a line break. No doubt the South African coaching team will have seen this, hopefully the Welsh coaching team will do something about it.

Agree with the post above re tactics, when Ospreys played a high tempo game on Friday, running quick penalties likewise the Scarlets yesterday, they had the opposition in trouble. Wales won’t win playing a slower, structured game.

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Re: South Africa tour

Postby Sandydragon » Sun May 22, 2022 9:26 pm

We won’t win by trying to muscle the Bokke, we have to be quicker and move them around.

Sadly I’m expecting a lot of handling errors and buggering about whilst they win scrum penalties and kick to the corners. On the bright side Beards maul defence was pretty good on Friday night.

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Re: South Africa tour

Postby Wallpaperman » Wed Jun 08, 2022 7:17 pm

Sandydragon wrote:We won’t win by trying to muscle the Bokke, we have to be quicker and move them around.

Sadly I’m expecting a lot of handling errors and buggering about whilst they win scrum penalties and kick to the corners. On the bright side Beards maul defence was pretty good on Friday night.


Sam Wainwright is an interesting call up. He spends a lot of time on the bench at Saracens, in all fairness behind Vincent Koch, so I wouldn’t expect him to start. He has only just turned 24, and best of luck to him. I thought that Joe Jones at Sale would have been ahead of him, or possibly Tom Botha who now qualifies for Wales and is a pretty decent tight head, but there we are. I don’t fancy Dillon Lewis at all over there, as previously mentioned we need to keep Tomas Francis in cotton wool.

We don’t have much luck with tight heads - Samson Lee and Leon Brown seem to be permanently injured, and Willgriff John has hardly played this season, too.

On a separate note I watched Ulster v Munster at the weekend, and a second row came on called Jason Jenkins. He is a South African, and he had a pretty decent cameo appearance. I googled him, and his full name is ‘Jason Howell Jenkins’. He is 6”8 and 19 stone +, and as mentioned he looked a tidy player. With a name like that I thought that he must have a Welsh parent, but he is ineligible as he has one cap for South Africa - against Wales !

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Re: South Africa tour

Postby Sandydragon » Thu Jun 09, 2022 12:15 pm

Wallpaperman wrote:
Sandydragon wrote:We won’t win by trying to muscle the Bokke, we have to be quicker and move them around.

Sadly I’m expecting a lot of handling errors and buggering about whilst they win scrum penalties and kick to the corners. On the bright side Beards maul defence was pretty good on Friday night.


Sam Wainwright is an interesting call up. He spends a lot of time on the bench at Saracens, in all fairness behind Vincent Koch, so I wouldn’t expect him to start. He has only just turned 24, and best of luck to him. I thought that Joe Jones at Sale would have been ahead of him, or possibly Tom Botha who now qualifies for Wales and is a pretty decent tight head, but there we are. I don’t fancy Dillon Lewis at all over there, as previously mentioned we need to keep Tomas Francis in cotton wool.

We don’t have much luck with tight heads - Samson Lee and Leon Brown seem to be permanently injured, and Willgriff John has hardly played this season, too.

On a separate note I watched Ulster v Munster at the weekend, and a second row came on called Jason Jenkins. He is a South African, and he had a pretty decent cameo appearance. I googled him, and his full name is ‘Jason Howell Jenkins’. He is 6”8 and 19 stone +, and as mentioned he looked a tidy player. With a name like that I thought that he must have a Welsh parent, but he is ineligible as he has one cap for South Africa - against Wales !

Bugger. Whats that new get out clause for supporting minor nations with eligibility! We could use that :(

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Re: South Africa tour

Postby Puja » Thu Jun 09, 2022 1:04 pm

Wallpaperman wrote:On a separate note I watched Ulster v Munster at the weekend, and a second row came on called Jason Jenkins. He is a South African, and he had a pretty decent cameo appearance. I googled him, and his full name is ‘Jason Howell Jenkins’. He is 6”8 and 19 stone +, and as mentioned he looked a tidy player. With a name like that I thought that he must have a Welsh parent, but he is ineligible as he has one cap for South Africa - against Wales !


If he's got Welsh ancestry, then he's eligible as it's been over 3 years since he played for SA.

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Re: South Africa tour

Postby Wallpaperman » Thu Jun 09, 2022 9:47 pm

Thanks Puja, can’t believe that Wales wouldn’t have contacted him if this is the case. Am unable to find anything about his heritage thus far other than his birthplace, but will look at this a bit more.

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Re: South Africa tour

Postby Wallpaperman » Sat Jun 11, 2022 12:57 pm

There’s an article on Wales online about URC transfers, and one of the posters below has said that there is something on Twitter about the WRU looking intoJenkins’ heritage. One of the other posters said that his father is Welsh, and is called Ivor Jenkins. Could all be b***ocks, though. I’m sure Wales online will pick it up if there is anything in it.

On the subject of sizeable Welsh second rows, does anyone know where Joe Peard has gone ? He was a Dragons academy player and played for Wales under 20s this year. According to Wales online he has been linked with Saracens but I don’t think it’s confirmed.

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Re: South Africa tour

Postby normanski » Wed Jun 29, 2022 9:50 am

Interesting first test in prospect. Strong Bok team selected with awesome front five and dynamic back row. Wales a laughing stock after the Italy selection debacle and set to be humiliated in front of a sell out 50,000 crowd.

Well the that’s the subtext most rugby fans, especially in SA, expect. The game doesn’t fill my heart with joy either.

If you look back over our games with SA in the last ten years most of them have been pretty close and we’ve managed a fair number of wins at home. Our semi final in the last RWC was close and could have gone either way if we’d had a late kickable penalty.

Biggar’s kicking has to be spot on at the high altitude to give us a fighting chance. One or two moments of brilliance (like North in his first match against SA, could silence the crowd and build the momentum we need to be competitive.

I can’t think we will win but hope springs eternal!

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Re: South Africa tour

Postby Sandydragon » Wed Jun 29, 2022 5:35 pm

I'll confess that I'm not looking forward to this.

I don't think we are as bad as the 6N made us look. We were close to beating France and if the ref had been a bit hotter then we would have beaten England as well. The Italy game looked like we thought we had won it before the game started (and there was nothing wrong with Wyn Jones' try). SO we were that from from 4 out of 5 wins and whilst that might have papered over some cracks, the 6N is very competitive and many games are close.

But, a tour to South Africa is hard and the smart money would have been on a home win even if we had enjoyed a better six nations. The Bokke aren't having that great a season themselves and we were close in the Autumn. If we can get out of the blocks quickly then we should have a good chance and I think the games will be competitive. I also think that injuries will take their toll and South Africa is a good place to pick up injuries (plus altitude will have an impact).

So Im hopeful that we will be competitive, but Im not hopefully of a series win (I'd be happy get one win and break that duck).

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Re: South Africa tour

Postby normanski » Wed Jun 29, 2022 8:03 pm

Sandydragon wrote:I'll confess that I'm not looking forward to this.

I don't think we are as bad as the 6N made us look. We were close to beating France and if the ref had been a bit hotter then we would have beaten England as well. The Italy game looked like we thought we had won it before the game started (and there was nothing wrong with Wyn Jones' try). SO we were that from from 4 out of 5 wins and whilst that might have papered over some cracks, the 6N is very competitive and many games are close.

But, a tour to South Africa is hard and the smart money would have been on a home win even if we had enjoyed a better six nations. The Bokke aren't having that great a season themselves and we were close in the Autumn. If we can get out of the blocks quickly then we should have a good chance and I think the games will be competitive. I also think that injuries will take their toll and South Africa is a good place to pick up injuries (plus altitude will have an impact).

So Im hopeful that we will be competitive, but Im not hopefully of a series win (I'd be happy get one win and break that duck).

Quite! One win would be progress and competitive in the other two would be great.

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Re: South Africa tour

Postby Sandydragon » Wed Jun 29, 2022 8:22 pm

Apparently the money is on Reffell to start. That would be interesting. I assume Faletau is a shoe in, but will Privac go for Lydiate at blindside with perhaps Refill there to go for maximum tackles or does he go for Navidi and look for something more expansive? Basham off the bench for impact?

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Re: South Africa tour

Postby normanski » Wed Jun 29, 2022 9:27 pm

The big risk with Lydiate is that he is prone to injury early in games. I’ve always admired him as a player, especially how he came back from breaking his neck, but he is at risk on the hard SA grounds.

For me, the safe selection would be Navidi, Basham and Faletau but I’d be more than happy to eat my words if Dan played out of his skin to slow down and disrupt the Bok’s ball. Defensively, he can be superb and we would need that to be in the game.

For me, Reffell would be a good bench option if Lydiate started.

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Re: South Africa tour

Postby Sandydragon » Thu Jun 30, 2022 12:37 pm

So the first team has been confirmed. Mostly I like it except for Dillon Lewis who I just can't get.

Liam Williams; Louis Rees-Zammit, George North, Nick Tompkins, Josh Adams; Dan Biggar (capt), Kieran Hardy; Gareth Thomas, Ryan Elias, Dillon Lewis; Adam Beard, Will Rowlands; Dan Lydiate, Tommy Reffell, Taulupe Faletau.

Bench. Dewi Lake, Rhys Carre, Tomas Francis, Alun Wyn Jones, Josh Navidi, Tomos Williams, Gareth Anscombe, Owen Watkin.

A defensively shaped back row, perhaps hoping to open up a bit in the second half with the arrival of big ball carriers in the forwards and Navidi.

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Re: South Africa tour

Postby normanski » Thu Jun 30, 2022 1:51 pm

Is Francis being held back because of his back niggle and not quite fully fit. He may well be on the bench to defuse the bomb squad.

Goodness help us if Lewis is roasted from the start. He was a great TH in 2019 RWC but seems to have gone backwards in his scrummaging prowess. If ever there was a time for him to step to the mark it will be on Saturday. I’m not holding my breath!

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Re: South Africa tour

Postby Son of Mathonwy » Thu Jun 30, 2022 4:46 pm

Yeah, it's mostly sensible.
For me Lake has proved himself and should start, these days.
Lydiate I can understand on paper but in practice, without really proving himself again, he's too old and fragile to start. Or to be on tour at all IMO. At least Navidi is on the bench.
Reffell, sure, let's see what he's got.
Scrum half is a, er three-sided coin toss.
I would start Anscombe. Hope he gets plenty of time in the game.
Hope Sanjay finds that old spark.

Jesus, I hope our guys have acclimatized, this is going to be tough. But we really can hope to win one of these matches (based on recent games with SA). I think.

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Re: South Africa tour

Postby normanski » Fri Jul 01, 2022 8:39 am

Son of Mathonwy wrote:
Jesus, I hope our guys have acclimatized, this is going to be tough. But we really can hope to win one of these matches (based on recent games with SA). I think.

I hope you’re right!

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Re: South Africa tour

Postby Sandydragon » Fri Jul 01, 2022 11:32 am

Anyone subscribing to Sky to watch this?

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Re: South Africa tour

Postby Son of Mathonwy » Fri Jul 01, 2022 2:09 pm

Sandydragon wrote:Anyone subscribing to Sky to watch this?

Yeah. Well, via my virgin media account. I managed to confuse them, I think, into giving to me for £23/month but it should be £27. I don't normally expect generosity from virgin. Anyway I usually hold my nose and pay for this kind of thing . . . too much rugby to miss, really, with NZ/Ire, Aus/Eng and even Arg/Sco too.

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Re: South Africa tour

Postby Sandydragon » Fri Jul 01, 2022 3:23 pm

Son of Mathonwy wrote:
Sandydragon wrote:Anyone subscribing to Sky to watch this?

Yeah. Well, via my virgin media account. I managed to confuse them, I think, into giving to me for £23/month but it should be £27. I don't normally expect generosity from virgin. Anyway I usually hold my nose and pay for this kind of thing . . . too much rugby to miss, really, with NZ/Ire, Aus/Eng and even Arg/Sco too.

Yeah, I might fork out for a day pass via NowTV.


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