Lions

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switchskier
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Re: Lions

Postby switchskier » Wed Jul 14, 2021 9:34 pm

Big D wrote:Going by today's game I'd say Price and Sutherland should start but can't see anyone bar Murray at 9.

Fagerson not in test team.

I reckon Curry will get the test 7 shirt.

Harris will depend on Henshaw and the back 3 guys are up in the air.


Curry was good tonight but Watson needs an opportunity now as he was the lions best player in his two games. I could see both playing, if there was a different style of play and probably a different 8 available. Might be a viable plan B off the bench though if Lawes/Berine start at blindside.

Assume that Williams will be back?

Russell had a good day today, if only he was actually available.

Cameo
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Re: Lions

Postby Cameo » Wed Jul 14, 2021 11:05 pm

Only saw the first half and in that Curry looked decent but not standout in the way Watson so often is. Different styles of play but I would definitely pick Watson if it was my choice.

Big game for some players this weekend.

I suppose the only hope for Price is that AWJ is flying out so dropping Murray wouldn't be dropping the captain (and Murray could then come on when AWJ comes off). Seems unlikely though.

Big D
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Re: Lions

Postby Big D » Wed Jul 14, 2021 11:50 pm

Gatland has dropped his captain before. Wouldnt be a bug shock if he did again.

stevedog1980
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Re: Lions

Postby stevedog1980 » Sat Jul 17, 2021 5:46 pm

Well I didn’t expect this wen he was originally selected but Ali Price must be playing his way into a starting spot

Mikey Brown
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Re: Lions

Postby Mikey Brown » Sat Jul 17, 2021 5:55 pm

Not sure he's able to usurp Murray as captain unfortunately, but yeah he's playing very well.

Croft_No.5
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Re: Lions

Postby Croft_No.5 » Sat Jul 17, 2021 5:56 pm

He has been easily the best 9 on tour. Mental if he doesn't start.

stevedog1980
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Re: Lions

Postby stevedog1980 » Sat Jul 17, 2021 6:04 pm

Mikey Brown wrote:Not sure he's able to usurp Murray as captain unfortunately, but yeah he's playing very well.


I’m not sure he has to, with AWJ coming back into the squad Murrays captaincy is seriously undermined

Mikey Brown
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Re: Lions

Postby Mikey Brown » Sat Jul 17, 2021 6:17 pm

I agree but I just don't see it happening, not for the first test anyway.

Sutherland not got much joy from the scrum today and Fagerson off to a bad start but, as ever, I haven't a clue which calls were correct.

stevedog1980
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Re: Lions

Postby stevedog1980 » Sat Jul 17, 2021 6:45 pm

I know it was largely forgotten because of what came next, but I was really impressed by that diving gather and pass by Harris

Cameo
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Re: Lions

Postby Cameo » Sun Jul 18, 2021 3:17 am

From today, I'd say Sutherland is probs behind Wyn Jones. Fagerson third choice. The other Scots did between well and very well. Hogg has looked very composed on both his starts.

stevedog1980
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Re: Lions

Postby stevedog1980 » Sun Jul 18, 2021 11:11 am

This is such a tough selection now, I’m just going to put my thoughts down for each position so please excuse the long post!!

1. Jones & 17. Mako. I don’t think Sutherland has seized his chance here. The starting test jersey was there for all 3 to have a go at but he has been the most underwhelming I feel. I don’t think he’s been bad, he just hasn’t stood out enough to warrant it and Mako has probably overtaken him with a decent cameo yesterday.

2. George & 16. LCD. Good argument for LCD to start after a great showing yesterday and there’s little to choose between them. These 2 slots are pretty much interchangeable for me at the moment with Owens in reserve.

3. Furlong & 18. Fagerson / Sinckler. I really can’t separate the bench spot just now. I think Fagerson is less eye catching than Sinckler but he is solid in the scrum and does show up well in the loose. Sinckler just feels like a player who you notice their work more, not necessarily better. Furlong is pretty much nailed on to start.

4. Itoje & 19. Lawes. Maybe harsh on Beard and Henderson here but Lawes ability to cover 6 just sneaks him onto the bench for me.

5. AWJ

6. Berne. Has looked very good each time I’ve seen him and is a genuine lineout option

7. Curry / Watson. I really can’t choose between them. I think Curry is marginally ahead but I just want Watson to get it!

8. Simmonds & 20. Faletau. Faletaus versatility in covering all the back row gets him the nod for me. With the physicality that’s going to be the hallmark of this series we really need the bench (and the starting XV) to be able to absorb multiple injury scenarios.

9. Price & 21. Murray

10. Biggar & 22. Smith

11. Duhan. I don’t think there’s any point in picking a player to contain Kolbe, it just isn’t possible. I think getting Duhan is the player we have that will give him the most trouble.

12. Farrell

13. Henshaw

14. Adams

15. Hogg & 23. Watson

12-14 & 23 I am really struggling. The midfield combinations are tough to find the right balance. Farrell is the only playmaking option at 12 and his boot will be useful. Harris has done well in each game and I’d be tempted to start him at 12. If you want to fight fire with fire, Aki is your best bet. Then 13, if Harris doesn’t play 12 he has a legitimate shot at 13, Henshaw is late to the party but probably the best choice and Daly has looked good plus gives the left footed and long range kicking options. At 14 & 23 one of Watson, Williams and Daly would definitely miss out. All players have the flexibility to cover multiple positions and they’re all top quality. Williams & Watson are in a straight shootout and I think Watson just edges that but Daly is offering something the others don’t with that left boot.

In summary, I’m just glad I don’t have Warren Gatlands job, he’s on a hiding to nothing.
Last edited by stevedog1980 on Mon Jul 19, 2021 9:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

Big D
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Re: Lions

Postby Big D » Sun Jul 18, 2021 5:28 pm

I think Finn and Fagerson are the only two that that won't be discussed for too long.

ARM
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Re: Lions

Postby ARM » Tue Jul 20, 2021 8:31 pm

According to Times, leaked team has 3 Scots starting and 2 on bench.

Hogg
VdM
Daly
Henshaw
Watson
Biggar
Price
Wyn Jones
LCD
Furlong
Lazarus
Itoje
Lawes
Curry
Conan

Bench: Sutherland, Sheriff, Sinckler, Hendo, Watson, Beirne, Murray, Farrell
Tbf, that’s a form team.

Big D
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Re: Lions

Postby Big D » Tue Jul 20, 2021 9:47 pm

Daly has made 12 of 20 tackles when starting 13 on this tour against the Sharks x 2 and stormers. That is a big concern.

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morepork
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Re: Lions

Postby morepork » Tue Jul 20, 2021 10:19 pm

Big D wrote:Daly has made 12 of 20 tackles when starting 13 on this tour against the Sharks x 2 and stormers. That is a big concern.


de Allende will fang straight at his velvety manicured beard.

Cameo
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Re: Lions

Postby Cameo » Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:06 am

I like Daly but I do think Huw Jones would have done just as much to deserve a test spot had he been picked to tour. I think they painted themselves into a hole by having Daly as their only centre with flair. Much happier with him starting than two boshers though.

I would have thought Beirne would be well ahead of Lawes too but what do I know.

Mikey Brown
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Re: Lions

Postby Mikey Brown » Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:26 am

The goal kicking is a massive part of it I imagine.

whatisthejava
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Re: Lions

Postby whatisthejava » Wed Jul 21, 2021 3:51 am

The weird thing about the leaked squad is it could be right.

If toony picked the backs I think that what he picks but I can’t see Tandy/Gatland picking Daly at 13 as they both live for a defence 13.

The rest is there or there abouts

septic 9
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Re: Lions

Postby septic 9 » Wed Jul 21, 2021 8:46 am

whatisthejava wrote:The weird thing about the leaked squad is it could be right.

If toony picked the backs I think that what he picks but I can’t see Tandy/Gatland picking Daly at 13 as they both live for a defence 13.

The rest is there or there abouts


Toonie dropped Huw Jones because of his defence. And before that Scotland damascene conversion, dropped Bennett at Glasgow.
And Gatland picks the team. Ultimately his game plan, his team, he will listen to the other coaches but no way he picks a player he doesn't want or of he prefers another. Its surely the one thing we all know and can agree about Gatland

whatisthejava
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Re: Lions

Postby whatisthejava » Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:39 pm

When has Gatland ever picked a poor defender at 13 prior to this match.

Wales have always had a solid defender at 13 with Gatland. Lions always picked JD first.

For me this is a toony call

Cameo
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Re: Lions

Postby Cameo » Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:04 am

whatisthejava wrote:When has Gatland ever picked a poor defender at 13 prior to this match.

Wales have always had a solid defender at 13 with Gatland. Lions always picked JD first.

For me this is a toony call


He picked G North at 13 for Wales a few times didn't he?

Tough to tell, perhaps they all thought the other options were just too uninspiring. Or perhaps Gatland thinks this is his last chance and wants to change his reputation (it's certainly the only way he would ever get the All Blacks job).

Anyway, 2 Scots in the back three. Imagine that in the 2000s!

septic 9
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Re: Lions

Postby septic 9 » Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:48 am

whatisthejava wrote:When has Gatland ever picked a poor defender at 13 prior to this match.

Wales have always had a solid defender at 13 with Gatland. Lions always picked JD first.

For me this is a toony call


all the coaches (5 of them) brought their proposed 23 to the final selection meeting. All were different. FWIW I think there is no way Gatland then names a player he is not confident in. And it was Gatland who picked Daly for the tour, and has made it abundantly clear he took him to play 13 (only Eddie Jones thinks he is a full back).

And would that be the Toonie who has chucked Jones, Bennet and Hutchison aside to accommodate Harris? I think not.

Daly is a balance to the rest of the midfield of Bigger and Henshaw - both terrific players and among the 3 or 4 certain starters, but neither famed for creative play

Big D
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Re: Lions

Postby Big D » Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:15 am

septic 9 wrote:
whatisthejava wrote:When has Gatland ever picked a poor defender at 13 prior to this match.

Wales have always had a solid defender at 13 with Gatland. Lions always picked JD first.

For me this is a toony call


all the coaches (5 of them) brought their proposed 23 to the final selection meeting. All were different. FWIW I think there is no way Gatland then names a player he is not confident in. And it was Gatland who picked Daly for the tour, and has made it abundantly clear he took him to play 13 (only Eddie Jones thinks he is a full back).

And would that be the Toonie who has chucked Jones, Bennet and Hutchison aside to accommodate Harris? I think not.

Daly is a balance to the rest of the midfield of Bigger and Henshaw - both terrific players and among the 3 or 4 certain starters, but neither famed for creative play


I think this is one of those calls where they'll have compromised to balance the backline like you suggest.

WITJ, Gatland may have picked JD2 but he is a classy all round 13. Lions don't really have a 13 of his all round quality (at his best) IMO.

septic 9
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Re: Lions

Postby septic 9 » Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:45 am

Big D wrote:
Gatland may have picked JD2 but he is a classy all round 13. Lions don't really have a 13 of his all round quality (at his best) IMO.


spot on. I think there was one available but was not picked to tour, and struggles to get close to the Eng squad

Banquo
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Re: Lions

Postby Banquo » Thu Jul 22, 2021 2:21 pm

septic 9 wrote:
Big D wrote:
Gatland may have picked JD2 but he is a classy all round 13. Lions don't really have a 13 of his all round quality (at his best) IMO.


spot on. I think there was one available but was not picked to tour, and struggles to get close to the Eng squad

Do you mean JJ or Marchant?


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