1872 Cup Champions

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Wallpaperman
Posts: 322
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Location: Colchester

Re: 1872 Cup Champions

Postby Wallpaperman » Tue Mar 23, 2021 8:00 pm

whatisthejava wrote:
Wallpaperman wrote:
whatisthejava wrote:interesting interpretation


Agreed re the Kinghorn decision, I didn’t get that at all.




Wallpaperman wrote:Re the penalty, the scrum half stepped into a player who had moved out of the tackle area. I felt the scrum half was milking that one a bit.


But he really didn't, we saw times and again refs being really hot on moving east/west and not North/South both times the player opted to move South, both times he slowed down the SH and both times he should have been penalized


I only remembered the second one when i posted, and I stand by my original view. The prop is rolling ‘east’ after the tackle and Pyrgos is approaching from ‘south west’. There is no need to make contact with the prop who isn’t between him and the ball. The first one, 30 seconds earlier, the tackler is lying on the floor to the south of the tackle area. Pyrgos jumps over his legs to get to the ball, trying to keep the play going. I wouldn’t have disagreed if Nige had called penalty advantage for that one.

switchskier
Posts: 1722
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2016 3:10 pm

Re: 1872 Cup Champions

Postby switchskier » Sat Mar 27, 2021 2:58 pm

Just the 27 players out for the dragons game tomorrow. Apparently Shiel and Taylor also carrying knocks, which is weird with neither Groom nor Johnstone not on the injury list.

Which, whilst not wanting to wish injuries on anyone, might be a good thing as a few youngsters get to play, Sykes starting and Boyle and Currie on the bench. Anyone know anything about the bench front three?

McCallum at loosehead? Feel really sorry for the lad.

15. Blair Kinghorn (96), 14. Jack Blain (11), 13. Mark Bennett (51), 12. Chris Dean (105), 11. Eroni Sau (21), 10. Jaco van der Walt (69), 9. Henry Pyrgos CO CAPTAIN (47)

1. Murray McCallum (61), 2. Sam Kitchen (1), 3. Lee-Roy Atalifo (7), 4. Marshall Sykes (2), 5. Jamie Hodgson (18), 6. Magnus Bradbury CO CAPTAIN (93), 7. Luke Crosbie (52), 8. Mesu Kunavula (6)

Substitutes:
16. Patrick Harrison (0), 17. Shaun Gunn (0), 18. Angus Williams (2), 19. Andries Ferreira (8), 20. Connor Boyle (3), 21. Charlie Shiel (30), 22. Matt Currie (1), 23. George Taylor (31)

Unavailable on Scotland duty (10): Simon Berghan, David Cherry, Grant Gilchrist, Darcy Graham, Nick Haining, Willem Nel, Jamie Ritchie, Rory Sutherland, Duhan van der Merwe, Hamish Watson.

Unavailable through injury (17): Lewis Carmichael, Nathan Chamberlain, Andrew Davidson, Dan Gamble, Sam Grahamslaw, Damien Hoyland, Charlie Jupp, Stuart McInally, Viliame Mata, Fraser McKenzie, Dan Nutton, Harry Paterson, Charlie Savala, Pierre Schoeman, Ben Toolis, Boan Venter, Mike Willemse

whatisthejava
Posts: 1693
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2016 12:13 pm

Re: 1872 Cup Champions

Postby whatisthejava » Sat Mar 27, 2021 6:25 pm

Wow, we are screwed, the dragons forwards will beast us

switchskier
Posts: 1722
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2016 3:10 pm

Re: 1872 Cup Champions

Postby switchskier » Fri Apr 02, 2021 11:05 am

Shiel and Pyrgos have signed new contracts. Presumably that means that Groom is off with Vellacott coming in. Cockerill's comments are as hilarious as ever:

"Henry is a proven international with a huge amount of experience in professional rugby, while his kicking and game management are integral to our overall attacking style."

Big game against Racing this weekend. If we spring an upset then it's not a lost, wasted season. Get humped with the same predictable sludge and maybe it'll prompt a bit if a re-evaluation. Worst case scenario would be a competitive loss which shows that the players can get up for the big games but prompts the coaches to double down on the safe, slow attack.

switchskier
Posts: 1722
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2016 3:10 pm

Re: 1872 Cup Champions

Postby switchskier » Fri Apr 02, 2021 1:05 pm

Er what? It just gets weirder. Kinghorn at ten. Bradbury in the second row too, without and locks on the bench. Bennett still on the bench.


15. Damien Hoyland (81)

14. Darcy Graham (38)

13. James Johnstone (61)

12. George Taylor (32)

11. Duhan van der Merwe (64)

10. Blair Kinghorn (97)

9. Henry Pyrgos VICE CAPTAIN (48)

1. Pierre Schoeman (59)

2. David Cherry (33)

3. WP Nel (151)

4. Magnus Bradbury (94)

5. Grant Gilchrist CAPTAIN (157)

6. Jamie Ritchie (73)

7. Hamish Watson (118)

8. Viliame Mata (85)



Substitutes:

16. Mike Willemse (35)

17. Boan Venter (3)

18.Simon Berghan (89)

19. Mesu Kunavula (7)

20. Luke Crosbie (53)

21. Charlie Shiel (31)

22. Jaco van de Walt (70)

23. Mark Bennett (52)

Unavailable due to injury [12]: Lewis Carmichael, Nathan Chamberlain, Andrew Davidson, Chris Dean, Dan Gamble, Sam Grahamslaw, Nick Haining, Stuart McInally, Fraser McKenzie, Dan Nutton, Rory Sutherland, Ben Toolis

Big D
Posts: 4770
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2016 7:49 pm

Re: 1872 Cup Champions

Postby Big D » Fri Apr 02, 2021 1:30 pm

switchskier wrote:Er what? It just gets weirder. Kinghorn at ten. Bradbury in the second row too, without and locks on the bench. Bennett still on the bench.


15. Damien Hoyland (81)

14. Darcy Graham (38)

13. James Johnstone (61)

12. George Taylor (32)

11. Duhan van der Merwe (64)

10. Blair Kinghorn (97)

9. Henry Pyrgos VICE CAPTAIN (48)

1. Pierre Schoeman (59)

2. David Cherry (33)

3. WP Nel (151)

4. Magnus Bradbury (94)

5. Grant Gilchrist CAPTAIN (157)

6. Jamie Ritchie (73)

7. Hamish Watson (118)

8. Viliame Mata (85)



Substitutes:

16. Mike Willemse (35)

17. Boan Venter (3)

18.Simon Berghan (89)

19. Mesu Kunavula (7)

20. Luke Crosbie (53)

21. Charlie Shiel (31)

22. Jaco van de Walt (70)

23. Mark Bennett (52)

Unavailable due to injury [12]: Lewis Carmichael, Nathan Chamberlain, Andrew Davidson, Chris Dean, Dan Gamble, Sam Grahamslaw, Nick Haining, Stuart McInally, Fraser McKenzie, Dan Nutton, Rory Sutherland, Ben Toolis


Not many second rows fit to be fair. Sykes could have benched but it is probably a better idea to get mobile guys on the pitch as the set piece isn't a place to expect much joy. Bradbury has done ok in the second row so far all things considered.

switchskier
Posts: 1722
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2016 3:10 pm

Re: 1872 Cup Champions

Postby switchskier » Fri Apr 02, 2021 1:42 pm

Big D wrote:
switchskier wrote:Er what? It just gets weirder. Kinghorn at ten. Bradbury in the second row too, without and locks on the bench. Bennett still on the bench.


15. Damien Hoyland (81)

14. Darcy Graham (38)

13. James Johnstone (61)

12. George Taylor (32)

11. Duhan van der Merwe (64)

10. Blair Kinghorn (97)

9. Henry Pyrgos VICE CAPTAIN (48)

1. Pierre Schoeman (59)

2. David Cherry (33)

3. WP Nel (151)

4. Magnus Bradbury (94)

5. Grant Gilchrist CAPTAIN (157)

6. Jamie Ritchie (73)

7. Hamish Watson (118)

8. Viliame Mata (85)



Substitutes:

16. Mike Willemse (35)

17. Boan Venter (3)

18.Simon Berghan (89)

19. Mesu Kunavula (7)

20. Luke Crosbie (53)

21. Charlie Shiel (31)

22. Jaco van de Walt (70)

23. Mark Bennett (52)

Unavailable due to injury [12]: Lewis Carmichael, Nathan Chamberlain, Andrew Davidson, Chris Dean, Dan Gamble, Sam Grahamslaw, Nick Haining, Stuart McInally, Fraser McKenzie, Dan Nutton, Rory Sutherland, Ben Toolis


Not many second rows fit to be fair. Sykes could have benched but it is probably a better idea to get mobile guys on the pitch as the set piece isn't a place to expect much joy. Bradbury has done ok in the second row so far all things considered.


There's still Ferreira (why did we sign him again) and Hodgson who aren't on the injury report. Hodgson played a couple of weeks ago too. Bradbury's done ok, but not having a lock on the bench is strange.

whatisthejava
Posts: 1693
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2016 12:13 pm

Re: 1872 Cup Champions

Postby whatisthejava » Fri Apr 02, 2021 2:24 pm

I really feel Bradbury needs either a new coach or a new club, think he is getting quite stale, should have been one of our top players but cant even get near the scotland team

Also feel that he should have been converted to a 8 to take over from Mata

Big D
Posts: 4770
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2016 7:49 pm

Re: 1872 Cup Champions

Postby Big D » Fri Apr 02, 2021 2:46 pm

switchskier wrote:
Big D wrote:
switchskier wrote:Er what? It just gets weirder. Kinghorn at ten. Bradbury in the second row too, without and locks on the bench. Bennett still on the bench.


15. Damien Hoyland (81)

14. Darcy Graham (38)

13. James Johnstone (61)

12. George Taylor (32)

11. Duhan van der Merwe (64)

10. Blair Kinghorn (97)

9. Henry Pyrgos VICE CAPTAIN (48)

1. Pierre Schoeman (59)

2. David Cherry (33)

3. WP Nel (151)

4. Magnus Bradbury (94)

5. Grant Gilchrist CAPTAIN (157)

6. Jamie Ritchie (73)

7. Hamish Watson (118)

8. Viliame Mata (85)



Substitutes:

16. Mike Willemse (35)

17. Boan Venter (3)

18.Simon Berghan (89)

19. Mesu Kunavula (7)

20. Luke Crosbie (53)

21. Charlie Shiel (31)

22. Jaco van de Walt (70)

23. Mark Bennett (52)

Unavailable due to injury [12]: Lewis Carmichael, Nathan Chamberlain, Andrew Davidson, Chris Dean, Dan Gamble, Sam Grahamslaw, Nick Haining, Stuart McInally, Fraser McKenzie, Dan Nutton, Rory Sutherland, Ben Toolis


Not many second rows fit to be fair. Sykes could have benched but it is probably a better idea to get mobile guys on the pitch as the set piece isn't a place to expect much joy. Bradbury has done ok in the second row so far all things considered.


There's still Ferreira (why did we sign him again) and Hodgson who aren't on the injury report. Hodgson played a couple of weeks ago too. Bradbury's done ok, but not having a lock on the bench is strange.


I suspect we are seeing those not going to be there next season phased out except where it is daft not to (Berghan, Willemse (sigh)). No Groom for example and Bennett on the bench for JJ is a little suspect suggesting other issues.

Big D
Posts: 4770
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2016 7:49 pm

Re: 1872 Cup Champions

Postby Big D » Fri Apr 02, 2021 2:52 pm

whatisthejava wrote:I really feel Bradbury needs either a new coach or a new club, think he is getting quite stale, should have been one of our top players but cant even get near the scotland team

Also feel that he should have been converted to a 8 to take over from Mata


I am a fan of his but some of the reasons he hasn't pushed on are self made. RC showed a tonne of faith in him only to see his new club captain get pished and fall over injuring himself in public.

A little time in the second row may help toughen him up a bit and help his play at 6 or 8 when he earns a chance. Takes me back to my playing days not knowing if I would be picked at second row, 6, 7 or 8. The good old days of the colts moving their KO time so players could play for both 18s and bench for 1sts and playing 7 for one and coming on at second row for the other :D Feel like an old man and barely halfway through my 30's.d

I am all aboard the new coach angle but few else are.

Big D
Posts: 4770
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2016 7:49 pm

Re: 1872 Cup Champions

Postby Big D » Sat Apr 03, 2021 12:30 pm

Been suggested on the Edinburgh board that Carmichael will be retiring and Sutherland has a dislocated shoulder and nerve damage.

Real shame for Carmichael and from personal experience that is a real sore one for Sutherland.

Mikey Brown
Posts: 9101
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 5:10 pm

Re: 1872 Cup Champions

Postby Mikey Brown » Sat Apr 03, 2021 1:34 pm

Yeah that's shit news, but sadly not too surprising on Carmichael if that's the case. Feels like he's played only a handful of games in several seasons.

Sutherland's Lions chances slipping away I'd guess too, and that sounds like a particularly nasty injury for a prop.

whatisthejava
Posts: 1693
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2016 12:13 pm

Re: 1872 Cup Champions

Postby whatisthejava » Sun Apr 04, 2021 3:43 pm

Edinburgh seriously pumped by racing, Edinburgh line out really cost them, Mist and Richie looked good in the first half but disappeared in the second (after 4 games in 20 days). VDM looked really tired ,
kinghorn isn’t a 10
Shooeman looks totally unbothered
Gilchrist was ok
Bradbury isn’t a lock
Mata looked average
Pyrgos isn’t good
Taylor and JJ had bits but not enough

septic 9
Posts: 705
Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2019 9:19 am

Re: 1872 Cup Champions

Postby septic 9 » Sun Apr 04, 2021 5:19 pm

whatisthejava wrote:Edinburgh seriously pumped by racing, Edinburgh line out really cost them, Mist and Richie looked good in the first half but disappeared in the second (after 4 games in 20 days). VDM looked really tired ,
kinghorn isn’t a 10
Shooeman looks totally unbothered
Gilchrist was ok
Bradbury isn’t a lock
Mata looked average
Pyrgos isn’t good
Taylor and JJ had bits but not enough


Pyrgos is fine, Kinghorn isn’t a 10. Mata carried well. Schoeman is a flat track bully, Gomes Sa isn't exactly Tadhg Furlong in the scrum

No game plan except give it to Duhan, even if he is surrounded by 6 opponents. And Duhan can't pass

A team set up to fail

Big D
Posts: 4770
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2016 7:49 pm

Re: 1872 Cup Champions

Postby Big D » Sun Apr 04, 2021 5:32 pm

Other than an obvious comment about coaching and gameplan, there needs to be a complete change of thinking at the club.

They have invested heavily up front and still come up way short while 10-13 lacks any quality.

septic 9
Posts: 705
Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2019 9:19 am

Re: 1872 Cup Champions

Postby septic 9 » Sun Apr 04, 2021 6:43 pm

Big D wrote: there needs to be a complete change of thinking at the club.


computer says no


That is computer spelled c-o-c-k-e-r-i-l-l

switchskier
Posts: 1722
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2016 3:10 pm

Re: 1872 Cup Champions

Postby switchskier » Sun Apr 04, 2021 9:11 pm

Big D wrote:Other than an obvious comment about coaching and gameplan, there needs to be a complete change of thinking at the club.

They have invested heavily up front and still come up way short while 10-13 lacks any quality.


Only McInally and one of the locks was missing from that pack but they got destroyed by racing. I don't mind them losing to a very good, very well rich french side but that was just embarrassing.

Scottish Caley Fan
Posts: 98
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2019 11:56 pm

Re: 1872 Cup Champions

Postby Scottish Caley Fan » Mon Apr 05, 2021 12:03 am

septic 9 wrote:
whatisthejava wrote:Edinburgh seriously pumped by racing, Edinburgh line out really cost them, Mist and Richie looked good in the first half but disappeared in the second (after 4 games in 20 days). VDM looked really tired ,
kinghorn isn’t a 10
Shooeman looks totally unbothered
Gilchrist was ok
Bradbury isn’t a lock
Mata looked average
Pyrgos isn’t good
Taylor and JJ had bits but not enough


Pyrgos is fine, Kinghorn isn’t a 10. Mata carried well. Schoeman is a flat track bully, Gomes Sa isn't exactly Tadhg Furlong in the scrum

No game plan except give it to Duhan, even if he is surrounded by 6 opponents. And Duhan can't pass

A team set up to fail


Going by the comments I've bolded, I can omit him from my list of potential uncapped players to be included in summer tests then? I had a feeling he'd be picked just because he's eligible by then but if he is "unbothered" and a "bully" then it's a no from me, I'd rather have a young Scot picked anyway.

Big D
Posts: 4770
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2016 7:49 pm

Re: 1872 Cup Champions

Postby Big D » Mon Apr 05, 2021 9:30 am

Scottish Caley Fan wrote:
septic 9 wrote:
whatisthejava wrote:Edinburgh seriously pumped by racing, Edinburgh line out really cost them, Mist and Richie looked good in the first half but disappeared in the second (after 4 games in 20 days). VDM looked really tired ,
kinghorn isn’t a 10
Shooeman looks totally unbothered
Gilchrist was ok
Bradbury isn’t a lock
Mata looked average
Pyrgos isn’t good
Taylor and JJ had bits but not enough


Pyrgos is fine, Kinghorn isn’t a 10. Mata carried well. Schoeman is a flat track bully, Gomes Sa isn't exactly Tadhg Furlong in the scrum

No game plan except give it to Duhan, even if he is surrounded by 6 opponents. And Duhan can't pass

A team set up to fail


Going by the comments I've bolded, I can omit him from my list of potential uncapped players to be included in summer tests then? I had a feeling he'd be picked just because he's eligible by then but if he is "unbothered" and a "bully" then it's a no from me, I'd rather have a young Scot picked anyway.


He's been off the boil but with Sutherland injured/potential lions tourist Schoeman will pick up a cap this summer. There are no young scots close to Kebble/Schoeman/Bhatti at the moment and we need to be pragmatic about it even though he has had a poor season.

Big D
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Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2016 7:49 pm

Re: 1872 Cup Champions

Postby Big D » Mon Apr 05, 2021 9:32 am

septic 9 wrote:
Big D wrote: there needs to be a complete change of thinking at the club.


computer says no


That is computer spelled c-o-c-k-e-r-i-l-l


And D-O-D-S-O-N to be fair. I am sure the SRU could step in and make/influence a decision if they really wanted to.

septic 9
Posts: 705
Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2019 9:19 am

Re: 1872 Cup Champions

Postby septic 9 » Mon Apr 05, 2021 9:55 am

Scottish Caley Fan wrote:

Going by the comments I've bolded, I can omit him from my list of potential uncapped players to be included in summer tests then? I had a feeling he'd be picked just because he's eligible by then but if he is "unbothered" and a "bully" then it's a no from me, I'd rather have a young Scot picked anyway.


he will be capped. What those comments mean s that he dominates poor sides, disappears against better ones. So he can look flash and the dog's bollocks when allowed to carry and his scrummaging isn't penalised. The latter is happening so much and refs all look for it, so he is trying to correct his style and is much less effective. Suspect that carries into his open play confidence, but better teams are better organised and he is more easily stopped.
The idea that many had that he was the second coming is looking some way short of the mark

septic 9
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Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2019 9:19 am

Re: 1872 Cup Champions

Postby septic 9 » Mon Apr 05, 2021 10:00 am

Big D wrote:
septic 9 wrote:
Big D wrote: there needs to be a complete change of thinking at the club.


computer says no


That is computer spelled c-o-c-k-e-r-i-l-l


And D-O-D-S-O-N to be fair. I am sure the SRU could step in and make/influence a decision if they really wanted to.


not sure about that. I wouldn't want him dictating rugby issues. Townsend and/or Mallinder might push a playing strategy, but Cockerill would ignore that, or put up a team to fail as this week. Dodson could sack Cockerill I guess. And it might well come to that - he (Cockerill) has had everything he asked for, and failed. Can write off this season for both teams due to circumstances, but Cockerill has to be on borrowed time, his limitations have been exposed for more than 2 seasons now, and clearly mimicking his leicester ending

Big D
Posts: 4770
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2016 7:49 pm

Re: 1872 Cup Champions

Postby Big D » Mon Apr 05, 2021 1:14 pm

septic 9 wrote:
Big D wrote:
septic 9 wrote:
computer says no


That is computer spelled c-o-c-k-e-r-i-l-l


And D-O-D-S-O-N to be fair. I am sure the SRU could step in and make/influence a decision if they really wanted to.


not sure about that. I wouldn't want him dictating rugby issues. Townsend and/or Mallinder might push a playing strategy, but Cockerill would ignore that, or put up a team to fail as this week. Dodson could sack Cockerill I guess. And it might well come to that - he (Cockerill) has had everything he asked for, and failed. Can write off this season for both teams due to circumstances, but Cockerill has to be on borrowed time, his limitations have been exposed for more than 2 seasons now, and clearly mimicking his leicester ending


You and I are both on the same page regarding Cockerill and Leicester. I was meaning that if the SRU really wanted to they could move him on. I am still not 100% clear what if any part the Edinburgh CEO would play in that which is why I included "influence". If I remember correctly the pro team CEOs have little to no input into coaching appointments.

Cameo
Posts: 1952
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Re: 1872 Cup Champions

Postby Cameo » Wed Apr 07, 2021 12:46 am

Kinghorn isnt a ten but I actually quite enjoyed seeing him there. It reminded me has has some rounded skills and isn't just a lanky full back. Finding a way to get him more involved and in space has to be a priority for Cockerill/the next Edinburgh coach.

switchskier
Posts: 1722
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2016 3:10 pm

Re: 1872 Cup Champions

Postby switchskier » Sat Apr 10, 2021 10:21 am

A fairly random signing on the wing - a 24 year old who's been out of rugby a while whilst he tried to make it as a sprinter. Looks like a fairly low cost SQ punt as much as anything.



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